Greek tax evaders with assets abroad are wrapped up in lists. After, the Swiss Lagarde-list (2,59 names) and the British Jersey-list (97 names), two more lists have reached the Finance ministry, while a third is apparently on the way.
Finance Minister Yiannis Stournaras revealed that two lists containing the names of rich bank account holders in Luxembourg and Lichtenstein arrived at the finance ministry in September and thus via Germany.
Stournaras said he could not reveal the names of the back account holders and that the financial crimes units (SDOE) are investigating and crosschecking whether the assets abroad were taxed before they left the country. He didn’t even say about the total amount of assets.
At the same time, Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem told parliament in the Netherlands, he had informed the Greek authorities about hundreds of Greek yachts anchored in the ports in the Netherlands.
Dutch tax authorities will provide details of hundreds of Greek yachts anchored in ports in the Netherlands, Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem told parliament Wednesday, in the latest effort to boost tax income there.
The comments came as the Dutch parliament debated its support for the next tranche of international aid to the debt-plagued EU member, where tax evasion has been a hot topic since the euro zone crisis erupted.
Dijsselbloem said he “immediately looked into this” after it was raised by members of the parliamentary opposition. “We informed the Greek authorities about this so they can levy taxes.”
“This kind of information is critical to enable the Greeks to impose taxes,” he said. No financial details of the yachts were revealed by the minister (Reuters)
Here is to note that
a) the Lichtenstein list is no new as we knew already in the past that rich Greeks had deposited money there
b) some Greek politician has assets in Luxembourg according to the tax declarations published by the Greek parliament
c) If the political will to combat big scale tax evasion is not there and any Greek government prefers to overtax the low and middle income employees and pensioners than to catch and punish those big bosses who hold them in their hands, even if 2,000 lists arrive in Athens, nothing will change.
Stournaras should start making a list of lists. Soon he won’t be able to find them….
HAHAHA!
And the Dutch guy should learn about his boats and ships. These things are not yachts, these are modern day, top of the range Greek tankers which are tax exempt. They are just parked there for safety, until all Greek harbours are sold and turned into Special Tax Free Zones.
The Dutch should tax the owners, becuase the greek “tax experts” will investigate the case for another 5 years. May even take longer because the “tax experts” may go on strike as well.
Maybe a tax on lists of tax evaders will help. The reporting european country would have to pay lol.
a new day, the same old news = nothing has changed in the motherland of democracy
why the Dutch do not tax them?
The answer is the first sentence in your text.
“Greek tax evaders with assets abroad are wrapped up in lists.”
If they are greek tax evaders then it should be Greece hunting them down. This is what other countries do (I believe).
Unless you want the Dutch to do the job and get the tax from the Dutch. But even then it must be Greece that makes the start and claims legal action.
But considering the “quality and efficiency” of measures with regard to the Lagarde List these new lists can be scraped.
If Greece cann´t enforce its own (tax) law then why bother and complay to the austerity measures. Obviously the rule is “There is no rule at al”.
Even if the lenders may be blamed for other things,that is here mostly the opinion, in this case (fighting tax evaders) Greece has proved(!) so far that it is a developing country and that´s a shame.
the reason for that is quite simple. In the vast majority of cases it’s the tax evaders that are supposed to be investigating themselves. Like asking Turkeys to vote for Xmas, it’s not going to happen.
The misconception with the notion that “all Greeks are tax evaders” is in fact quite offensive. The vast majority of Greeks have their taxes deducted at source, and their is simply no way of “dodging” tax. It that same vast majority that has in fact paid it’s taxes that is now being hammered with austerity measures, and knowingly so.
The simple proof of the fact that the taxes were indeed paid by them lies in the fact the moneys held in the various social and health funds (= taxes paid in by Greeks) was stolen out of those funds to pay for the gambling debts incurred by mainly foreign financial institutions. I believe it’s called “recapitalization”.
If the EU and the foreign lenders are that concerned about this tax evasion thing, then why did they interfere in such a blatant way in the last elections in Greece? They ensured more of the same with the strategies adopted through international press manipulation (and you obviously buy into the make belief conjured up through this) and downright blackmail of a misinformed people? If this interference hadn’t happened, there would have been a totally different government in Greece. Would they have done better? We don’t know, yet anyway. It’s only a matter of time before we will find out. A few months at most.
However, what the powers in the EU did make clear is that they would much rather deal with those who allowed and facilitated the years of tax evasion (passively through inaction or actively through bribery) than have a government in place that might just call the very EU actions and policies on that very same issue in question. That cannot, under any circumstances be allowed, you just never know what might get exposed…
1)”Greek tax evaders with assets abroad are wrapped up in lists.”
This is not what I said. This is the first sentence of this post.
2.)
“The misconception with the notion that “all Greeks are tax evaders” is in fact quite offensive. The vast majority of Greeks have their taxes deducted at source, and their is simply no way of “dodging” tax. It that same vast majority that has in fact paid it’s taxes that is now being hammered with austerity measures, and knowingly so.”
I did not say all greeks are tax evaders. The post is referring to a number of lists of tax evaders (there is the big money given to Greece). I talk about this.
3.
“The simple proof of the fact that the taxes were indeed paid by them lies in the fact the moneys held in the various social and health funds (= taxes paid in by Greeks) was stolen out of those funds to pay for the gambling debts incurred by mainly foreign financial institutions. I believe it’s called “recapitalization””
When the money was stolen then the question is: Who did it?
Who was in charge of greek social and health funds? Foreigners or Greeks?
4. What I have learned up to know:
a) Tax evaders are not prosecuted because they would be “be investigating themselves” = law enforcement non existent
b) foreign organisations robbed greek social and health funds = Any prosecution cases? But then again they would be “be investigating themselves”, right?
c) “concerned about this tax evasion thing” = not at all, I am just wondering how long the majority of greeks is taking this.
d) “you obviously buy into the make belief conjured up through this” = No, I just believe Greece has been under government of thiefs and crooks for the last decade (if no longer). BUT again: the greek people vote for them!????? Because according to you they are still in power. How come the majority of greeks didn´t recognise this? Where is the media/press?
e) Taking into consideration these “facts”. The last and most important question is: How come Greece is still existing as a nation?
Apart from that, I knwo about the political crooks and criminals in my country. However, we can still live here, hard working but we make our living. It seems in Greece EVERYTHING needed for a “democratic” country is not working.
You may not say in the exact same words that all Greeks are tax evaders, your comments in this and other posts make it abundantly clear that that is exactly what you believe. If that is a wrong conclusion, then you might want to abandon your smug air of rightgeousness and start distinguishing between the criminals, their masters, and their victims in an unambigious, clear manner.
The money from the social and health funds was stolen on March 8th 2012 (as reported by amongst others the Health News portal), to pay “the bondholders”. If you know anything about what is going on in this country (other than what Bild tells you you are allowed to know), then you should know that these bondholders are NOT the Greek bondholders. They were conned out of their savings by the same bunch of puppets, acting on behalf of the real puppetmasters, the international bond holders and your banks, which are owned by the international bond holders. And the puppets were probably compensated handsomely for the service.
Because tax evaders would end up investigating themselves does not mean that law enforcement is non existent, 2 totally different things. It means that tax evaders will not be investigated, and only that. Populist and wrong conclusions like yours are what are mostly responsible for the bad name you insist on spreading about a country full of hard working and hard suffering people, who have been conned by a (relatively speaking) few crooks and criminals. On who’s behalf is open for discussion. As far as I’m concerend the current scam finds it’s origins in your part of the world, and has in fact nothing to do with the last 30 years or so of political mismanagement, croneyism and corruption in Greece. That is very conveniently being used as a smoke screen to hide the much more serious situation in your own country. The current scam has everything to do with politically sanctioned financial wild-west attitude in your part of the world. Yesterday’s events are only the beginning of it. There is far more to come, if it gets the chance to say the light of day in your so called democracy.
You keep asking about who voted them in, where is the press, etc. You, out of all people, should know everything there is to know about crowd manipulation, false information, bribery and political criminality. I’ve already quoted you Prof Ritschl, if you want more examples of just how powerful misinformation can be and what kind of insanity it can lead to, think back to what it did to the political scenary in your very own country some 75-80 years ago, and what that subsequently did to Europe and the rest of the world. It is no different in Greece today as it was in Germany in those days. If you want your answer to “How come the majority of Greeks don’t recognise this”, then read your own history. It has all the answers.
As for the press, the answer to that one is very simple too. Look at who owns them…
“The money from the social and health funds was stolen on March 8th 2012 (as reported by amongst others the Health News portal), to pay “the bondholders”. If you know anything about what is going on in this country (other than what Bild tells you you are allowed to know), then you should know that these bondholders are NOT the Greek bondholders. They were conned out of their savings by the same bunch of puppets, acting on behalf of the real puppetmasters, the international bond holders and your banks, which are owned by the international bond holders. And the puppets were probably compensated handsomely for the service.”
= I didn´t ask where did the money go to. I asked you who was in charge at that time. Don´t bother to answer anymore.
= I don´t read Bild. I have an insight of what is going in Greece since a friend of mine is living in Greece. His opinion even exeeds my “smug air of rightgeousness”. And no, he is not a german.
“Populist and wrong conclusions like yours are what are mostly responsible for the bad name you insist on spreading about a country”
= What is spread in the world is the fact that Greece has not managed to hunt down greek tax evaders.
“As far as I’m concerend the current scam finds it’s origins in your part of the world, and has in fact nothing to do with the last 30 years or so of political mismanagement, croneyism and corruption in Greece”
= bold statement considering hundreds of “blind” and other “disabled” (not to mention the 100years old) people who have benefited from the social system for years. No puppets there?
“You, out of all people, should know everything there is to know about crowd manipulation, false information, bribery and political criminality.”
= Now this is going to be realy disappointing to. I AM NOT A GERMAN. I work here but I am polish. So just keep your reference “you, out of all people” for the right target. This is what happpens when people blaming others of using stereotyps do it themselves.
I have a good news for you. You don´t heve to answer to me. I know that you with your “puppetmasters and internetional bond holders” knowledge are superior to me. Let me live in my worthless “smug air of rightgeousness”.
PS: If the Eurozone und the EU and especially the rotten northern part of Europe are so bad to Greece then “drop the bomb” an leave the community. Prove to Europe and the world that you can do it better on your own.
over and out
Let me ask you something. Why do the EU and Troika insist on Greece taxing the poor out on to the streets to “save” 13 billion or so. While the same TROIKA “estimates” that tax evasion costs the country up to 70 billion. They have the lists, they have the names. Why not make it conditional to “assistance” that the Greek government goes after that 70 billion within a specific time frame instead. Much more money, the tax evaders get what they deserve (according to everybody, including me), Greece is really helped and reorganized, and no social unrest. Could it possibly be because they all have their snouts in the same trough?
As for the rest, my apologies for calling you German. It does however not take away from the fact that those shouting about the bad Greeks should look a lot closer to home to find the real solutions. A little scheme like the one I just mentioned would actually show everybody that those ruining this country were in fact intent on doing something popsitive instead of what they are doing…
Greeks are the MOST HONEST PEOPLE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN. Nobody in Greece has ever evaded their duty to pay taxes!! Ask all the taverna owners on Hydra!
Or all the Porsche Cayenne owners in Larissa! http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/9/49503
hi,
this must have been a misunderstandig. The residents were helping the SDOE to collect the money. Since the SDOE forgot to take the money the residents followed them and tried to hand it over. :)))))
From an article about this misunderstandig:
“When the tax inspectors took the restaurant owner to the police station, angry residents took the station under siege: They threw stones, firecrackers and flares at the police station and even cut the water and electricity supply.”
“SDOE found that seven out of ten businesses had committed tax evasions. In inspections conducted 6-23 July 2012, SDOE carried out 1,410 tax controls. 805 ‘offenders’ had committed 22,435 tax offences.”
I believe it’s called “resident recapitalization”. This is clearly the job of the puppetmasters. :))))))
That’s a misconception as well, my friend. There were and there are thousands of ways of “dodging” tax.
Civil servants who have their land registered in the name of their mother or even their daughter and then declare no second income. Employees at corporations do the same. The early retirers (?) are working in other jobs at friends or family, without paying any taxes or social security over that income. Just two examples of tax dodging that is very common.
Yes, taxes deducted at source is fine. But an awful lot have second or third incomes that never is declared. Either because of blatant fraud or because of the enormous red tape that makes it often impossible to declare those extra incomes.
Think about it: Why are the prices staying so high while income officially falls through the floor? Market distortions, enormous tax hikes and… the ‘extra’ incomes. Let me quote the Bank of Greece on this:
And that, my friend, is also the reason why so many people are still putting up with a small strike here and a small work stoppage there instead of full blown strikes.