Greek Parliament approved with votes the government proposal for Referendum on Creditors’ proposal on July 5th 2015. YES voted: SYRIZA, INDEPENDENT GREEKS, GOLDEN DAWN.
NO voted: NEW DEMOCRACY, PASOK, TO POTAMI, KKE.
The Referendum Question
The roll call voting started at 2 a.m. Sunday, after a heated debate that lasted 14 hours.
Absolute majority of 151 votes was needed.
Irony: actually, in their deadline to Greece, creditors had said that the Greek Parliament had to approve their austerity proposal Saturday or Sunday, the latest. The Greek government decided otherwise. Alas!
Fascists supporting nationalists and socialists in the parliament. The state of Greece is in such dire straits 🙁
Are you talking about the European Union? Current state of play show that Greece is one of the few European countries to allow real people-democracy and nothing is discussed behind closed doors.
In case you do not understand, the ideology of any and all political parties is irrelevant to this discussion. The focal cause of much of the mess within European states is the fascist ideology of the EU leaders coupled with corrupt and easily blackmailed so-called political leaders of the EZ who owe allegiances to their secret societies and other unelected groupings. If you are gong to troll, at least try and have a decent alternative argument to put forward.
As much as the existance of parties like golden dawn is a shame on all europeans, in this case its exactly the other way around of how you describe it.
Its a shame on the supposedly democratic parties in parliament that voted against the only way to oget out of this conundrum, by having a clear decsion by the people.
The one thing I do criticise is timing, this should have come a week or two earlier. For one thing the greek electorate should have ample time to understand what exactly theyre voting on, and on the other side proper democratic behaviour also demands to give the parliaments that need to agree on the creditors side enough time to discuss things. And everyone knew that that would have to been done by 30.6
All extensions were forced! Even the 1st one they wanted for six months but Samaras found it a smart trap to “compromise” two months. He wanted to get back to markets and end it 2014 but the troika didn’t believed his numbers of recovery as they couldn’t exist because the statistics for Oct-Dec gets published in March 2015
If the voters in Greece need more time then it’s up to the troika-institutions, goat-shit: June 30, raisins: avrio
Im not saying it is up to the institutions, to decide when greece holds a referendum. Thats is within the roights and the power of the greek government alone.
But at the same time there are other parliaments that have to agree to this. And since this there will be no agreement until 30.6 and they cant agree to anything before the current program runs out, that programm is finished. By default, its not that anyone decided to to not give greece any more time it is that no decision was made on an extension past june, because such a decision requires parliamentary aproval in several countries. All this was know before, so why not hold the referendum one week earlier?
like I said if greeks majority is for no then it doesnt make much difference, but if it is a yes this just gives additional problems that are unneccessary.
Parliamentary approval was first a pain in the ass and now it’s a weapon? Times are changing!
If you read or listen into Tsipras and Varoufakis you’ll understand that a week earlier there were different circumstances, or check for Flassbeck.
With that fixed 30th is the same nonsense like that the media now is gunning up for “if referendum says yeah, Tsipras has to resign” but that’s bullshit
Its not a weapon its a fact. Any extension has to be approved by the bundestag ans severeal other parliaments. And they have to do it because the bundesverfassungsgericht declared that the government cannot violate parliamentary rights by deciding on liabilities without asking for a vote. Democratic proccess take at least a bit of time and just like the greek people have the right to say yes or no on their end of a deal, so do those parliaments. You and others here rightly complain about the governments deciding things all on their own well then you will understand why those parliaments need at least a day to discuss things.
Many lawmakers have said that negotations can continue, but it wont be discussion about the final installment of the 2nd package, id guess it will have to be a somewhat new deal. And that matter because it further pisses of said MoP. Btw. if you are hoping for no deal at all youll find yourself in the nice company of the righter half of the CDU/CSU fraktion.
Constitution Court will decide that “extension of blockade” was not meant with “extension of rescue-loans” (Orwell Kafka)
@Che IWe had been in agreement with you on the timing. (Whether 1-2 weeks advance notice would have been enough to properly prepare the referendum, or a bit longer would have been required is another question). However, the timing makes all the difference in this case.
I see another problem with the question the Greek voters are being asked to answer. As you, I, Ms. Lagarde and others have pointed out, the creditors’ proposal is valid only in the context of the second bailout program, which ends on June 30. Apart from that, the documents the Greek voters are being asked to vote on are fairly technical. For example, how many would be able to make an informed decision on notions such as “parametric budgetary measures”, “unified wage grid reform”, “gross annual financing needs”, etc. At the same time, the more important aspects of their choice which they can understand (e.g., staying in or exiting the euro zone) are not spelled out. In the end, a voter either trusts the current government to decide what deal is fair and wants them to exit the euro zone otherwise, or accepts austerity if that is required to keep the euro.
I agree a referendum makes sense in the abstract — but only if the timing and the question are right. Otherwise, it becomes a mockery of democracy and an excuse for politicians to abdicate their responsibility to govern in the best interest of the people.
And if Golden Dawn had voted against you’d say “fascists supporting nationalists, communists, socialists and liberal-populists” or “antisemite and communists escape with referendum”
Just because the US federal Reserve & the European Central Bank can run thier currency into infinity – & here is the catch.
DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEIR CURRENCY HAS TO BE ACCEPTED, OR HAS VALUE IN THE REST OF THE FINANCIAL WORLD.
Ask yourself – would you take FUNNY MONEY ?
It is like the LEPRECHAUN carries 2 pouches – in one is the silver coin which magically return to his pouch every time it is spent & the gold coin which turns to ash or dissappear as soon as he is safely away.
All money is funny money. All money requires you to believe that you can exchange pieces of paper for real useful things, or use electronic records to reduce the electronically recorded number in exchange for real things.
Since the paper money and electronic counters have no actual basis, in principle they are all worthless whenever people decide that they are worthless.