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Support “Greece” or “Grexit” distribution among EZ member states

After Greek government sent its Proposals to Creditors, now ball is in the court of  Eurozone. Some ‘positive’ signals already came from France and Malta in the sense of “Greek proposals could be basis for negotiations.” And I write this post, there have been no other comments by the rest of EZ leaders and finance ministers – they are  obviously still stuck deep inside the Greek documents: they add, subtract, multiply and divide the submitted Greek numbers to find out whether they match their demands. Or not. Most probably they enjoy a relaxed Friday afternoon, they have their assistants do the job and they on their part read on Twitter and Facebook what the majority of international media write in a new frenzy.

EZ-ruler Germany is quite so far, and they are a few those who believe that:

German/Dutch politicians seem to be such psychopaths that I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn down even Syriza’s total capitulation

Lithuania is one of Germany’s satellite states lining up with hardliner Wolfgang Schaeuble who wants to trade with the USA “Puerto Rico for Greece.”
The Royal Bank of Scotland has a nice around the table graph showing which countries support Greece, which support Grexit and which ones want to avoid Grexit.
 Grexit Pro-Against

The package of austerity offered by the Greek government is something that the EZ member states can hardly reject. OF course, some countries are obliged to bring the Greek issue to their parliaments that will decide whether negotiations can start anew.

Below is a relevant chart – even though not complete and not totally accurate.

 

Greece ESM Parliaments

Meanwhile, everybody knows that the EZ-Greece dispute has less to to with finances, bad-paid nurses in Esthonia and low-pensioners in Slovenia but it is a pure political issue: because if a left-wing government succeeds, then all these Balias- Calias-Dalias – maybe kicked out by their own angry people.

I just want to advice my readers from the former Communist states, who whine about low salaries, and ridiculous pensions a book: It’s the capitalism, stupid! by Nikos Boyiopoulos, expelled by Greek KKE for wanting Greece’s Communist party to Reform.

PS And we will live ever after, with or without Europe. bye

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22 comments

  1. costa sakellariou

    i didn’t know that the czechs don’t sit at that glorious table!

    i checked it (!) three times and don’t see them anywhere…

    • The Czech republic is not a member of the euro zone. They (like the Poles, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Romanians and Croats) still have their own currencies, but are supposed to join the euro eventually.

      The meeting on Sunday is for all 28 EU members, so the countries above (along with the U.K., Denmark and Sweden) will be represented.

    • Czechs have the czech crown as currency, not the euro.

      • Although if you go to Prague many places will accept euros. Like will happen if Greece leaves the shackles of the euro

      • costa sakellariou

        which is why i didn’t see them!…i wasn’t careful about which group this was…

        of course – the czechs and their kroner! aren’t they lucky!

  2. “These are the small, undemocratic and economically struggling countries that 25 years ago jumped from the one totalitarian state of mind (Communism) to the next: the undemocratic neoliberalism.”

    Unfortunately this is very true. Not only that in the Baltics there is a quasi apartheid against the Russian origin population which are not even citizens (the situation varies, I think Lithuania is the least bad). Whats more, some have turned from communism to a neo-nazi kink of nostalgia mood where every year there are parades honoring the SS battalions formed in those countries!
    One thing many people forget is that Germany did not fought in WWII it had many allies in Europe, many are exactly the same that are backing it now.
    PS-The Portuguese and Spanish have cooled down a bit, they were acting like Merkels minions before, but now that they see that Greece can actually leave the euro they are more cautious cause they would be the ones to take the beating.

    • “Several eurozone member states are keen to see Greece out of the common currency club in order to do a great favor to Germany for the simple reason that they cannot stand on their own feet.”

      I know such a view fits conveniently into the narrative of “poor small Greek David fights the rich big German Goliath”. However, I do not think it is accurate. The even poorer and smaller Baltic states are genuinely frustrated by Greece’s haggling, even more so than Germany; see my other posting today under a different article: https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/07/11/251-lawmakers-vote-for-rescue-program-syriza-suffers-heavy-losses/#comment-3789017.177

      Yes, the Baltic nations are still poorer than Greece (which is one reason they are so frustrated)….”
      As said in your previous copy paste comment… Press releases are not allowed here – yours KTG

      • KTG, I never post press releases or copy&paste texts. I took some time to pull select GDP data from the World Bank site and provide my own brief analysis. I was hoping that could inform and benefit all discussion participants and improve the overall level of discourse. It’s really frustrating to see the result of this effort erased. Is it possible to restore it?

    • “One thing many people forget is that Germany did not fought in WWII it had many allies in Europe, many are exactly the same that are backing it now.”

      Let’s be clear on the historical sequence of events. The Baltic states were independent until 1940, with their own authoritarian régimes (which, some argue, ensured stability and economic growth). In 1939 Stalin and Hitler divided the territories between Germany and Soviet Union into “zones of influence” (Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact). Based on that pact, Hitler attacked Poland and Soviet Army entered eastern Poland in September 1939. In June 1940, the Red Army occupied all of the territory of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, installed pro-Soviet governments, and in August 1940 the Baltic states were incorporated into the Soviet Union.

      Nazi Germany attacked the Soviet Union a year later — in June 1941.

  3. ederlezi -gyongyvirag

    That is the capitalism, stupid! – yes i know, but i beleived, that Syriza want to change the capitalist system. It is very hard to do it, i also know, but if they can not do that, they should admit thet fact. Radical leftist? -oxi, oxi, kai oxi.

    • Giaourti Giaourtaki

      The mass mobilization isn’t over after OXI and dealing out 74bln plus14bln-banksrecapitalization plus30bln for that overlooked Hedgehogs
      Search for the “Guide for collective survival in times of mass destruction” by SKyA:
      “…we must work to ensure a default from below, so that we do not pay a single euro (or a drachma or a ruble) for telephone, electricity, rent, transportation and healthcare bills…”

  4. Its understandable her position.
    I am very sorry to say that.
    Tsipras turned the negotiations into a game of cards game ,with threats of leaving euro.., referenduns asking for a no to austerity..,just to make a U turn saying no to europe austerity actually means yes…;

    People get tired.
    Negotiators get angry.
    At a certain point europe does want to see an end to the Game ,one way or another.

    • After 5 years of playing with a doctored set of cards that the Germans had manufactured, any normal person or country would ask for a clean pack of cards. That you cannot understand how negotiations should work — and instead demand that everyone should obey the country with the largest purse — is a clear explanation of why Europe is fucked. Your mentality is basically one obsessed with power and money, and no respect for people’s lives or other countries. It is a contradiction of the basic principles of the Treaty of Rome; if that’s the best Europe can do, we may as well just close it and go back to little countries fighting each other.

  5. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    The parliament in Germoney is not allowed to decide, it will only decide on something that the German government will “proudly” (Morkel) presents and this other idiots are only one or two years member; that’s some way wrong like gentrification.

  6. None of the countries wish for grexit, rather they consider price of “greep” too high, and they believe that Tsipras is milking too much out of their good will and are truly tired of it.

    Problem is, there can’t be such thing as “controlled grexit”, if it happens it’s going to be sudden and uncontrolled. We just saw a glimpse of it, and it was enough to panick Tsipras.

    • Giaourti Giaourtaki

      Controlled would mean to get control over the money and assets abroad, right now the 1/4 of the economies of the Balkans that was “Greek” is all stolen by Balkan governments since weeks.
      Controlled would also mean to reactivate industries that take a shit on exports, a country well organized doesn’t need import/exports-dogma, only greedy capitalists need that nonsense, everything else one can smuggle from Turkey.
      Anyway, the Warsaw Pact states always follow the German money that controls their countries and their leader, “Saugosch” King Schäuble wants Greece out – known since 2011 – and Putin’s old bedfellow Merkel taught Schäuble everything useful about Stalinism, like call capitalistic bullshit “reforms”, control the media, brainwashed minds aso, just imaging that the Germans are so crazy that they call their unemployed “customers” or “Kindergarten” is no German word any more, now it’s an English word for KITA.

  7. Tspiras wants even more money than before. He spoke in the Euro parlement. Verhofstad responded but I couldn’t find it at keeptalkinggreece. He expressed what a lot of people in the other EU countries think. You can find it at

    At this point there is no trust between Greece and the other Eu countries. Will Greece stick to their own proposals? Greece wants a lot more money than before against a few austerity and reforms measurements. The economy and banksytem has worsen badly since the call for a referendum. Civiel servants who were fired get their jobs back, free public transport in Athens. Greece has no money but expect others to pay for them. Syriza members are against the latest proposals.

    If the other EU countries will again give money, it will be gone forever. No way to get it back because the reforms will never happen.
    Oxi meant no austerity, but also no money aid. No money for pensions, salaries and so on. The Greek people choose for that.
    At this point I recommend: oxi, no aid for Greece. The reforms had to be undertaken by Greece self to get economic prosperity, In a lot of countries it has already been in place: pension age to 67, ports in private companies hands, etc. So what is the big deal that Greece does the same? If you have less to maintain there will be less taxes necessary for paying all the civiel servants and keeping up the government companies.
    The only problem you want to see is that other countries say what Greece has to do. And you are proud (at something what happened more than 2000 years ago – democratie) and you want to decide what to do. True problem: Greek politics are not capable to do it themselves.

    • Giaourti Giaourtaki

      The banks run dry from your blockade that has more impact than the Iraq embargo! Public transport should always be free that’s the reason to call it “public”, your Verhupfblurb was getting an answer from Tsipras to his lies, as every law for reform that Athens tried to make was forbidden as “unilateral action” leading to end the “negotiations” None of the “European” politicians was able to say how many civil servants got their jobs back! Was it 595 cleaners? What happened to the 15.000 new jobs the Troika allowed Samaras to create in 2015? How many of this used SYRIZA? 595!

    • The problem with the Dutch is that they always put their fingers into things that they do not understand. That works ok for stopping holes in dykes, but not for anything else. Stick to what you are good at, and leave economics to economists. (That excludes your idiot Finance Minister DieselFlower with his education in agriculture)

    • Giaourti Giaourtaki

      Anyone needs material for a diploma on brainwash? Never asked yerself how heavy the measures were for 7.2 billion – in reality only 5.3 of it were loans? All the dirty tricks played by Berlin and your shell-gamer Dieselblümchen and “German Lies” instead of “German Angst” it’s all this “mentality” that you all claim are typical for Greeks, Gypsies and Jews now you show; the Italians and French of the south won’t ignores this, be sure and be safe!

  8. govs from Latvia

    The quasi hawkish stance of Latvia is exaggerated. Greek issue is relatively unimportant for a typical Latvian. Much more people here are scared about the floods of refugees, memories become alive about floods of famine victims from Russia in 1946 during Soviet occupation. The government of Latvia is therefore making so much noise about Greece, in order to divert attention from refugee problem.

    Furthermore, the big friendship between Baltic nations and Germany is exaggerated; during WWI they were absolute enemies. As a consequence of Versailles all German citizens had to leave the Baltic States, and this allowed relative prosperity during the interwar period.

    The problem of Baltic countries is being trapped between dismal economic prospects in Eurozone (role model Finland has a 5-year incurable recession without any perspectives, because there just are no models of success for small counties in EU), Mr Putin playing Russia card, while today’s Russia is a pale shadow of what Imperial Russia or the Soviet Union was, and very dysfunctional asymmetric model of Common currency and Common market. When allowing choosing, the Common market is clearly a bigger enemy to Baltic States, than the Common currency, and this is the most important difference to Greece. During the 2014 elections in Latvia one political party led by a lady with Georgetown University curriculum, clearly positioned against the dysfunctional EU Common market.

    The EURO EU Commissioner Dombrovskis is a master of compromise, which was of importance during crisis in Latvia. He will always try to make a compromise, and never ever propose any scandalous ideas.