Awa! So cute! As long as a newborn will let its first scream and take a deep breath of tax-evasion-free Greek air, it will get a Tax Identification Number (AFM). The AFM-number is necessary, for the case, the newborn Greek -who may look innocent and guileless today – turns into a first degree tax evader tomorrow. Prevention is a must in creditors-occupied Greece and the Ministries are rushing to cope with demands. According to media, the Greek Finance Ministry plans to implement this extremely useful measure as of 1.1. 2016.
Alternate Finance Minister Tryfon Alexiadis confirmed the news and described the measure as “very correct”, stressing that it is already being implemented in several other countries. “In Greece it will help to combat tax evasion and reduce the nightmare of bureaucracy,” he added.
I think, I heard Alexiadis saying this morning that “now grand parents will be able to inherit properties and assets to newborn grand children” without being afraid to evade taxes – or something like that. There is always some cheap, outer-space political justification for a weird measure, as all under-aged in possession of properties and assets “do their tax declaration” together with their parents.
Nevertheless, Alexiadis said nothing on whether newborn babies will be handed out together with their tax identification number also the famous “personal code number” (κλειδάριθμος) that confirms the tax identification number and allows access to electronic tax system Taxisnet.
A normal adult living in Athens, for example, needs an average of 3 days standing “line” at the stairs of a tax office in order to get his “personal code number.” I can imagine that it will be extremely difficult for newborns to have to take their buggies to the local tax office and try to fill the application form having at hand their Identity Card and whatever other paperwork comes into the mind of a tax officer.
Newborn Alex wanted his Tax number to end with his birthday ‘112016’. Mean tax officer did not satisfy his request.
In this Kafkasian times we live in, I hope that Alternate FinMin Alexiadis will not decide to tax newborn babies with ‘deemed income‘ criteria based on annual consumption of diapers and wipes, pacifiers and feeding bottles, strollers and baby swings and also add the size of the baby crib in square meters.
Baby Nicholas just found out, he will be taxed with deemed income criteria.
Something like “Baby Nicholas”, age 1, deemed income: €3,000 for food and basic needs items + €1,500 for 0.5 sq.m. crib. Just as the Greek Finance Ministry has been taxing long-term unemployed and other people without income since 2012.
Baby Anna hears that she will have to pay property tax ENFIA.
Rumors that the AltFinMin will impose Value Added Tax of 13% on unused diapers and 23% on used diapers (processed item!) do not confirm for the time being.
BTW: Do not confuse Social Security Number with Tax identification Number and identity Card Number. Greeks apparently need all these 3 different numbers to have their identity crosschecked. Numbers make the world go round, boost bureaucracy and allow thousands of civil servants to keep their jobs….
PS I assume, Alexiadis has just a couple of days left to solve these practical problems for the future newborn Greek taxpayers and potential tax evaders, before he leaves the office due to upcoming elections.
Pre-school-dropouts will make the revolution and escape into the mountains to avoid to get numbered. Just like alcohol, eating meat and practice religion paying taxes should be allowed only to grown ups.
Despite all the noise, based on anecdotal evidence from friends who visited Greece over the last month it seems it is “business as usual”. Most vendors — from small stores to restaurants to rental property owners do not provide receipts. When asked, they do that emphasizing their displeasure. VAT evasion still seems to be rampant, regardless of new laws or government statements. The resort towns are full of vacationers — mostly Greeks.
Can others share their impressions?
your “evidence” is indeed anecdotal, and of the wrong variety. Living where tourism is THE major form of income for the vast majority of people, I can tell you from first hand rather than anecdotal experience that your info is of the “Bilt” variety and niether wanted nor appreciated.
@ephilant I did not mean to offend anyone; sorry if I did that inadvertently.
Are you implying that vendors where you live are providing receipts and VAT collection rates are up significantly?
I am wondering if VAT revenue stats are released publicly. If this is the case, it will be interesting to compare these stats for June and July 2015 (given that July was a record-breaking month for Greek tourism) vs. 2014.
BTW, I never read “Bilt”.
Where did you go to during your visit? Did you visit the suburbs of Athens with their boarded up shops and queues of poor waiting for a charity to feed them one meal a day. Did you go into the homes of any of the 30% of unemployed, uninsured citizens and ask how they were coping? Did you visit any hospitals were patients are told sorry we have no pain relief medication to ease your discomfort or meet the married couples who had aborted a child they wanted because they had no money for the birth or upbringing of an infant? Did you speak to any old people on low pensions and ask them how they decide between eating and buying essential medications for heart disease or diabetes? I live in Greece and am lucky enough to still have a home and food and enough money to get by, though we didn’t go on holiday this year many Greek friends who have relatives with homes on the islands did take a break and good luck to them but you can’t judge Greece’s situation from a beach bar. I have lived here for 21 years and I know. It is not business as usual.
It’s this kind of evidence that proofs that “all street-cafés are full” but the only thing possible to see were some streets, all streets of Greece to see is impossible even for Superman but if Superman could see all beaches, discos, bars, cafés and restaurants in Greece and they all would be overcrowded he would only see less than 1% of the population.
@Cathy I did not mean to start a discussion about Greeks’ standard of living. It looks like the two words (“mostly Greeks”) I added in passing touched off a lot of sensitivities. Sorry about that.
When I talked about “business as usual” I referred to the practice of tax (particularly, VAT) evasion by vendors in the tourism industry. You can see that my post is on that subject.
Do not reply to this crook.
And anyone who thinks that massive overtaxation will lead to people being happier to pay taxes needs to consult a psychiatrist. The only was is if you send in the SS to threaten people: I guess that is being planned as I speak.
Well its not like you have an alternative xenos, so who should we reply to?
But this time they are so stupid, they wanna put everywhere solar-parks but should read first the reports of their grandfathers, who would tell them that therefore it’s too hilly
Even if that would be the case what do you care? People like you make more and more money by avoiding as many tax as possible, write for some bullshit media and get paid for their lies with frat cars, a house of their own plus a weekend-villa and want a 2nd on a Greek islands or try to sell houses of former Gastarbeiter stolen away from them by EU-terrorists.
@Giaourti Obviously, taxes need to be collected if the state is to be able to function, including helping poor pensioners or unemployed. Anyone who is interested in the Greek economy (which is pretty much anyone coming to this site) should be interested in Greece’s ability to collect taxes (including VAT). Do you agree?
BTW, I only wish I was making “more and more money” using any of the methods you listed (tax avoidance, writing for BS media). Unfortunately, I am not 🙂
So you are a traitor to your own class. Only patrons and their lackeys can talk such nonsense as pensions and unemployed allowance are not to be paid from taxes, the wage-slaves paid for it already all their working life long and this is also the reason why this social-security is called insurance.
Big brother is watching you from your birthday till your end and even longer. Alexiadis did tell the truth. The system was introduced in other countries in Europe before “to combat tax evasion”. It functions like the system introduced in the US to combat international terrorism. At least all the official correspondence that c o u l d be relevant one day is automatically registered under the tax number. What other data will be collected and who will have access to them is an open question. Every citizen becomes a potential tax evador or terrorist and the rule of law a pure fiction.
Freedom will only come via a big blackout by cutting electricity
Of course, this is the usual State bureaucratic nonsense, that doesn’t work anywhere but allows politicians to think that they have their population under control. In the UK, National Insurance numbers are supposedly allocated at birth. Strangely, I do not remember receiving one. When I went to register for one, at 18, I was told “you must already have one, as a British citizen born in the UK”. So, I asked them to inform me of it. They couldn’t find one, so gave a new one. End of story, except that for about a decade, every time I used the number people complained that it was a new number not consistent with my date of birth. Of course, they had no way of checking it anyway — just complaining for the sake of it.
Now, with computers and internet technology they can complain AND check it. Just one problem: for about 30 years the British State gave out these numbers (on little plastic credit-type cards) to anyone who asked for one, including illegal immigrants. That card implies that you have the right to work (when you don’t). So now, the malakes are trying to pass a new law, requiring employers and landlords to cjheck if their employees/tenants are legal residents of the country. One small problem: there is no way to check. So, the proposed law makes it a criminal offence with a large fine for employers and landlords. The main result is that British citizens without passports (there is no ID card) are being refused the right to rent apartments without getting a passport.
Moral of the story? There is no limit to the stupidity and time and money wasting that politicians can engage in. Their obsessive desire to control people is exceeded only by their greed and low IQ.
The bastardokratia charges extremely high for THEIR passports and if you put them into a micro-wave the expensive crap shows how crappy it really is and even for THEIR propaganda from radio and TV they take lots of money but for the babies there are no reasons to scream as they have a number, may be they starve but they have a number. This is also a sweet perspective for the parents and so these numbers will result in much more babies.
What? They need to pay VAT over breast milk or something? Or else no breast milk for you baby!
Don’t get me wrong, but you all sound like those crazy american libertarians ;). I’m portuguese, and my 10 year old got is Tax Identification Number years ago. No big deal. Can we keep a calm debate on this? A fellow comentator is being treated like a traitor, a fascist, a baby killer, etc, only because he made a question about receipts. We can’t make a functional and decent society without taxes. Have you any revolucionary alternative? Charity, perhaps? We had that experience, centuries ago…
my reservations are that they keep issuing numbers (social security no, insurance fund no, tax id no, whatever no) with the effect that the citizens has to run from public service to public service to issue these numbers. result is an unbelievable bureaucracy. Do you really believe they will combat tax evasion by issuing tax ID Nos to babies?
Why can’t people order the TAX ID in the internet? We do that in Portugal. The TAX Id comes by mail. That would be a good idea. bureaucracy is not our main problem, nor getting in lines; we have other very serious problems.
As for the tax evasion, the governemt can’t combat that without the help of the people. Ask for receipts, etc.
Because: (1) newly born babies have yet to learn about the internet! and (2) many of their parents are unable to afford a computer and/or internet access.
As for receipts, when I lived in Greece I always announced before paying in a small shop “I do not want a receipt”. It was up to the shop-keeper to decide if s/he wished to donate money to Germany, but I was not prepared to do so.
Newly born babies don’t have to learn about internet. It’s the parents. I know many parents don’t have internet, as in any other country, but using the internet for that purpose, and many others, like payments, making requests, etc, would facilitate the life of those with the internet, and also the people who don’t have it, because the lines would be smaller.
So, about the receipts, the problem is Germany? In Greece, tax fraud, no receips, etc, was allways about Germany, or some other foreign country or entity? Ok, then.
Ask in Germany for a receipt the cabbie will get really loud or throw you out in the middle of nowhere, the fast food will do the same and make crazy moves with his kebab knife.
The Greek does not pay taxes and the German is proud of? A state where the majority in elections is the non-voters has no right to ask for taxes anyway.
“A state where the majority in elections is the non-voters has no right to ask for taxes anyway.”
And people who intentionally dont pay taxes have no right to ask for healthcare, the use of public infrastructure and education, so next time you see someone not getting their medicine just tell they should be happy that they have the right to live in your anarchist utopia, theyll feel better right away im sure.
What infrastructure? Roads get paid by customers, every student needs a private school and for healthcare workers are forced to pay.
Giaourty,that’s hipocrisy. You are using all sorts of infrastructures payd by those who can’t aford to skip taxes, like state employes. You wouldn’t live in a country were the people refuse to pay taxes, as a political statement, or whatever.
By the way, Greece is not Sudan, is a modern country where the majority of the population has infrastructures and a way of living most countries in the world can’ afford. And, yes, millions of greeks have internet and can pay for it.
I used to think that my country, the UK, had the highest ratings for arrogance and hypocrisy. That was before the Germans decided that they run Europe — and now we all see their lies and hypocritical cant.
noone is unable to afford internet. if cant afford a pc (you can get a used one for 50-100bucks) you can go to an internet cafe. heck they have internet in the himalayans and in the african jungle by now.
as for the second part, since as if i understadn it correctly you lived in greece before any crisis it seems to me that you werent not donating so much as defrauding the greek public and as such did your part in this whole mess.
you want more money(no cuts but instead huge investments) from others while at the same time gleefully telling everyone keeping his or her house in order to go f.. themselves. and then you wonder why people are reluctant to trust people like you….
Garbage. You are just posting propaganda here, along with nasty accusations against me personally. KTG: why are you allowing actual personal attacks? — as opposed to putative personal attacks, that I have been accused of.
There are a lot of people in Greece who have trouble feeding themselves and their families. Computers and internet are a luxury for such persons — obviously, something you do not understand. This crass comment by you reveals exactly how little you know of anything.
I understand, that when i was in Nepal last year people who wanted Internet could get it. Not 24/7 and not at home, but even in the rural areas away from kathmandu 50% of the kids had a facebook account. If you dont have Internet access it is 95% of the time because you dont want it. 2€ an hour is affordable for anyone who wants it.
see/ even in Nepal you need money to use the internet
2€ an hour is what I checked from an athens net cafe. In kathmandu you dont pay for wifi, you pay for the food and oftentimes the wifi comes with it(or you get wifi in the hostel). its slow and crappy and sometimes doesnt work, but its usable.
Xenos I cant even count the number of times you called me and other people stupid, thats not putative. I dont care what you call me/how you insult me except that for the fact that it does nothing to advance the discussion. Yet when I call your behaviour what it is by definition(assisting tax fraud, with the consequence that the greek government has less money to spend on its people) you think it is a personal attack?
Compare that to “Your crediblity is below zero. You know nothing about Greece, nothing about economics, and apparently nothing about anything else.”
when im obviously trying to learn about greece(thats why im here after all), I asked for your expertise on economics which you refuse to give and which while im no professor I do know some things about economics, I made about 1/3 of the bachelor courses plus quite a few at master lvl plus I read new alot….
And the very height of it you again, because we had this discussion a month ago, accuse me of being insensitive toward suicide victims when my first sentence is I feel for the families…
At this point it is not about opinion anymore, you are factually wrong to accuse me of these things.
There is a very big difference between pointing out someone’s obviously low IQ and accusing someone of “defrauding the Greek public”. No comparison.
Im not accusing you of that, you stated it yourself.
Also I have a certified IQ of 135, not that this makes my arguments any better.
I’ve heard of the old junky trick against the turkey to wank 6 times in a row in front of a mirror but 135 times looks like Guinness, cheers!
Rich daddies kid in his drug-fantasy. Just like your bullshit suggestions to go travel round the world while most people who wanna migrate for jobs don’t have any money for. Even in countries like Germoney 25% of the people don’t have internet, some don’t want, some don’t have time for new fashions and most don’t have money, in Greece it was 2008 up to 35%.
My brother is new zealand since april. Starting money 250€ plus a plane ticket that was a gift. If he were to come back right now he would even have made a plus.
That reality, fantasy is your idea that everyone can get healthcare without anyone paying taxes.
btw gigi I lived on about 700€ a month for almost a decade, and that includes rent and healthcare(which admitedly is very cheap for students), everything but travel expenses which I worked for extra or got gifted. So your rich daddy kid fiction is just that, fiction.
you keep talking of gifts. it means you have ‘rich’ friends who can afford to give you gifts. BTW you cannot compare the living standard of a student -especially in Germany, with very cheap university fees, cheap housing and healthcare -, with those non-students who in addition have other fixed obligations every month plus maybe families to feed.
When I was studying in GERM, I had 400 DM (now 200 euro) per month and could add with jobs for students. It was a very good life with travels, kneipe, dining out, culture etc etc because our monthly expenses were low and we had students’ reductions.
Im not saying I live in poverty but im not rich either and Ive found that even with very little money most of the time there is way if you just want it. Giaourti cant go traveling because he doesnt know where to “put his stuff”. Traveling doesnt have to be expensive, if you do work and travel you can even earn money while youre at it. And I-net is not so expensive that people who need it cant afford it like Giaourti and xenos say. 2€per hour in an net cafe or you invest 100€ once get a cheap tablet and just use free wifi from someone. It seems to me they want these things to be impossible because it fits into their world view.
Btw. the gifts, about every 2 years Id get a plane ticket worth maximum 500€ mostly less as my birthday gift(not one of them, except for a cake thats it). Its not nothing, but thats not “rich” either.
Nobody of all my friends know where to store their record-collections as its just too hot for them and tonite we write a new song about all the Greeks that go secret on the trail of tears hidden as Syrian orthodox refugees and the Serbian cops asked why do you speak Greek? Because we are Greek orthodox. Yeah, the Serbs understood…(that’s may be the chorus)
You could pay my friends 500 Euro per month so that they will use internet they won’t use it but we know all the day will come they put you in prison for not using it.
Nobody made any questions about receipts, somebody tried – just like every 2nd “European”, corrupted by overpayment journalist’s smear – to paint a picture of receipt boycott with a statistical value of void and blatant hearsay. The same method was always used to spin about the Greeks that never pay taxes until some working class folks figured that these people who dis-inform like this had obviously never worked a single day in their useless life as otherwise they would know that workers can’t cheat tax.
“I don’t care about VAT 23% because I never pay and all the supermarkets will never charge me because they are in fear of my vendetta! It’s always like this going, hey Mademoiselle you have to subtract the VAT because I’m Greek” (Zobra the Punk)
” …to paint a picture of receipt boycott …”
“As for receipts, when I lived in Greece I always announced before paying in a small shop “I do not want a receipt”.”
hope they did VAT-free discount, or you were overcharged
btw. ofc gigi is right, one xenos doesnt make a statistic.
still got to appreciate the irony
not clear? when you purchase something without receipt, sellers/service providers make discounts of 13%-23% as it is without V.A.T. That’s why poor people try to get things without receipt, to benefit from discount. Ach, you didn’t know???
Im not talking about poor people, Im talking about xenos.
Also I clearly remember an earlier discussion where I made it clear that I think theres a difference between someone who cant afford to pay taxes and someone who doesnt want to.
Also as I understand it this started long before any crisis.
So you tell me, when someone who is not unable to pay for his/her living expenses tries to get that discount is that ok with you?
Xenos is tax-free in the UK to send his taxes to Greece
Of course I know. I also made it clear that this was not to reduce the price, but as a political opposition to the criminally high VAT rates. There is no discussion about price reduction.
Since most of them were small shops struggling to survive, I did not discuss the issue. This is a moral statement — about not allowing the Germans to tax the poor while accepting the money of the rich coming into German banks. Basically, what has been done to Greece by Germany has disgusted the civilised world.
those up there are quotes from gigi and xenos, I sadly havent been to greece for 15 years.
So your performance aims on getting invited to Greece, free travel …
As said evidence void by hearsay and typical stupid German goat-shits beside that meanwhile most people will give you receipts anyway. You can try it, try it and refuse it, try to give it back three times until you figure the fear.
SINCE THE BEGINING OF THE CONSCIOUS MIND IN MANKIND
CREATIVITY HAS FLORISHED
FOR AS LONG AS THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR COUNTERFEIT
TECHNOLOGY IS SO SOPHISTICATED & WILL ONLY BECOME MORE SO
SOME PERSONS HAVE MORE THAN ONE IDENTITY
SOME PEOPLE HAVE A DOZEN IDENTITIES
STAMPING A NUMBER ON A NEW BORN BABY’S BOTTOM
WILL DO NOTHING TO PREVENT CREATIVE ACCOUNTING
RECORDS FROM BIRTH & FORWARD CAN BE ALTERED
Example: MS Christine Lagarde is said to be born on January 1st 1959 & is therefore 59 years of age.
If we add 10 years she will be 69 years of age, which seems to suit her looks & skin degeneration better.
How old is she really ?
Is this a case of falsification of birth records ?
She only looks like she had never cum on her face
Don’t you just love the little control freaks, who get off by lining all the pickle jars up in a regimented row on the shelf.
They also wear plastic underpants, which are called incontenance nappies for the aged & feeble of mind.
Anyone over 60 years of age should be at home, dribbling into their luke warm cup of tea & NOT MAKING LEGISLATION
ONLY OLD PEOPLE DO STUPID THINGS LIKE THIS
STUPID THINGS THAT WASTE TIME & MONEY & CAN BE EASILY OVERRIDDEN
IT GIVES THEM A FALSE SENSE OF CONTROL & SECURITY
Why can’t anyone see this reality – the world is being run by people who are TO OLD & deteriorating rapidly – lok around & see that the global financial system has collapsed – there is massive unemploymnet throughout the developed world because our politicans GAVE AWAY the jobs to the third world – no sane government GIVES AWAY THE JOBS of their nation – how many millions of displace people are wondering the world today – people who have had everythig stolen from them – or is billions of refugees now.
Only the mad & the incompetant have caused this global crisis to exist.
Look & see reality man