Tension dangerously rose at the port of Piraeus on Wednesday, when Greek officials went to inform the refugees and migrants camping there that they have to be transferred to “accommodation centers.”
The refugees got angry and launched a sit-in in front of the officials and representatives of the Greek Coast Guard. One man was briefly detained for beating at a car of a driver who was trying to pass through the mass of people.
The detention raged the refugees.
UPDATE: But the most shocking scene took place when a man took a baby and held it high and even threatened to throw it at the cost guard men.
According to latest information, the baby girl is 2 months old, the man is the father and the family is from Afghanistan. He threatened to kill “all of his five children.”
The man told media that he was a relative of the detainee and that he reacted to the detention. ” I reacted. I took the baby in my hands. First. I will kill my five children, then I will kill myself.”
The Greek Coast Guard has ordered an investigation, as coast guard man seems to push the man away.
Terrified from the action was not only the baby but also the officials and refugees standing by. The crying baby returned in the parent’s who tried to calm it down.
The majority of the 4,720 people camping at the port for the last weeks do not want to move away fearing they would lose connection to the outer world and may miss the chance to cross if the borders would open.
The Greek government is determined to have them out of the port and thus before Eastern on May 1st which marks the launch of this year’s touristic period for the Greeks and thousands are expected to use the port of Piraeus for their Easter holidays.
Greek authorities have not exclude also the use of force to have the refugees and migrants out of Piraeus. The refugee who was briefly detained told media that he was told “we have to go or the police will remove us tomorrow.”
At the same time, “some unknown” still try to convince refugees to stay at the port of Piraeus. telling them that the borders would open soon. Greek authorities have not managed so far to find out who is behind such actions and what it the utter purpose.
Wednesday noon, a migrant from Pakistan attempted to hang himself from an electricity column in the detention center of Moria on the island of Lesvos. He was convinced to give up by other migrants.
Deportations came on hold on Tuesday and Wednesday, after thousands rushed to submit asylum application in the hope to win time. Deportation to Turkey are expected to resume on Friday.
This is about the social psychology of people denied human agency — they do not have any power or control over their own lives. Everyone in such a situation becomes desperate, and many do desperate things. This is the fault of the EU, and to a lesser extent Tsipras who just does as he is told. It is a disgrace and humiliation for Europe. We should have just allowed the Nazis to win the last war: why bother fighting when our politicians just give everything away. Forget “Oxi-Day”: Greece has only “Malista-Days” celebrated by Papandreou, Samaras and Tsipras.
nice actors, payed by left, invaders, killing soon you
You’re an invader when you make holidays in invader-countries like USA, New Zealand and Australia, you won’t ask for allowance in the reservation camps and imperialist prisons. If you don’t like invaders go to the airport and tell’em to stop flights into these illegal states; also tourists from said countries like to get a ban as illegals.
I get frustration and there are a lot of actions that can be excused due to the stress of the situation.
But and this is a big but, quite a lot of people are having positions/opinions, and sometimes they act on those, that quite frankly I do not want.
The man threatens his own children. Why? Because his relative got(briefly) detained for beating someone. This wasnt a reaction to being denied asylum. And it wasnt purely in the heat of the moment either, if he told this to the media afterwards.
So we have a man who is threatening children in order to use emotional blackmail so he can get his relative out completly justified detention. IF anything had happened to the child it would be more then fair to charge him with attempted murder.
Same thing with the guys who riot and use violence to try to get what they want.
Last week I talked at length a guy who was born in libya but who lives in ger for more then 20 years, has a german passport and wive and who is now working between 10-15 hours each week to help refugees for free. Just some free stories(that admittetdly are singular tales, but reeinforces my point that and why I dont want SOME of the people coming here).
a. brother and sister from iraq, she gets invited to prechristmas dinner of the local community. he forbids her on account the fact that there will be men at the dinner and because he will not allow her ” to become a western whore”. she goes anyway, next time my friend sees her she has a blue eye and her brother took her cellphone for a week(even though she paid for it).
b. afghan family with 3 daughters, the daughters stopped waering headscarf as soon as they arrived until dad notices it, gets very angry and forces them to wear the scarf again, meanwhile he is laughing about his son wanting a hot blonde girlfriend.
d. this one happened to me a couple of weeks back. I was talking to a guy from yemen and throgh his broken english he made it clear that he insists on his humand right to a house(not a room or a place to stay or an apartment, he demanded a full house just for his family) and a car.
e. and finally my favourite. A couple of weeks back I joined a friend of mine for some drinks with some of his schutzlinge from iraq and syria(he assist about 10 refugees with all kinds of things from bureacracy to getting i-net eacces). During the discussion multiple times some of the complained how it was racist that they had to learn the language before any employer would even consider hiring them. When i explained to one guy( no german, bad english ,went to school for 8 years in syria and admitted that he was nowhere near the top of his class) that in a job interview he cant expect to be treated the same as someone who speaks the language and has a diploma. He told me:
” See thats racism. Racism is when white people trreat others badly”
About half an hour after that he enlightened me onn how ” jews are nasty pigs who want to “holocaust” the muslims” and ” blacks are just dirty apes, all they want to do is rape our women”
Now all these are negative examples and I could have told you positive ones as well, but my point stands. Not everyone coming is an angel, not everyone coming here is deserving of help and, allthough this rather unimportant for the rest of the world, I have no problem in saying that some of the people i simply do not want.
There are racists and misogynist or simply bad people everywhere, here as well as in every country of the world and I am not inclined to accept lower moral standards just because people are in a dire situation(just for one second ask yourself how you would react to a neighbor or friend who threatened to kill his child because his relative was detained by the police for beating someone up)
some example was ‘deleted’ as key words attract audience/readers I don’t want around here.
What is your point? That out of a million refugees there are some who are just as nasty as some European fascists? After the pure nastiness that people outside Europe have seen coming from Europeans — especially Hungarians and other East Europeans — are you actually surprised that they think it is acceptable in Europe to be anti-semitic and self-centred? Did it ever occur to you racists that this message of what Europe is about has been well publicised? At the same time, they seem to be aware of human rights legislation — which is more than many Europeans are aware of.
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There is an old saying: “You reap what you sow”. Europe sowed pure nastiness — and the crop is yet to be harvested.
“After the pure nastiness that people outside Europe have seen coming from Europeans — especially Hungarians and other East Europeans — are you actually surprised that they think it is acceptable in Europe to be anti-semitic and self-centred?”
It seems to me you are vastly overestimating the knowledge about europe the average refugee has. The people I have spoken to/know about one step removed through friends, barely know anything about germany, and thats the country they want too go to. These people certainly had other problems in their lifes then to keep informed about random countries they never planned to go to(most will know hungary of course because that on the way, but ask about poland and the baltics and most wont even recognise the names).
Also no matter how shitty some governments are behaving during the last few month, that doesnt explain(or in some cases doesnt have anything to do with) what I described.
And at this point Id really like to ask both of you, where does that hatred of yours for europe/europeans come from?
You know I disagree with a lot of what our governments and society does, but both you and Gigi sometimes show pure hatred. Where in the world is any society or any culture acting better/do you ever compare to other countries?
Like Russia, which was activly bombing civilian targets in Syria in order to “cleanse” certain areas of anti-assad people and to increase the refugee flow?
Or how about Saudi-Arabia, a Kingdom where the King actually has power(been a while since we had that but since things are so shitty in europe right now perhaps youd prefer to go back to a monarchy???), religious nuts dominate public life (check the differences between ISIS laws and Saudi laws, there arent many)and who is now with about 2800$ the highest per capita spender on military (they are putting it to good use in Yemen and in support of ISIS).
Then we got Erdogan in the mix, a guy who not only supported radical islamists in syria with weapons, thereby adding more fuel to the fire, no he also started a war against his own citizens because he lost an election.
Also I guess Assad is better to have then Merkel, at least chemical weapons are fast, Merkel will just slowly bore you to death.
Meanwhile the only countries in the world(in my count thats I,GRE,AUS,GER and SWE) who are/were activly trying to help refugees to a measurable extent are mostly fascists and racicsts…..
I found the Panama Papers this week very telling. The differences in governing between/the politcal culture of various countries around the world are pretty much coming to light during this.
Iceland: prime minister immediatly gone
Britain: Cameron apparently held a couple of ten thousand pounds in the fund of his father(sold in 2010) which is not illegal but certainly morally questionable, what happens remains to be seen, but Id expect him to get at least into a bit of trouble.
ger: no politicians involved yet now there is a big discussion about taxavoidance and there might come some measures from this, before hand our politicians didnt do that much because of course upper class has no interest in change.
Now compare those reactions to Russia and a lesser extent China and Saudiarabia:
Putin apparently sucked billions of € in government money and gave it to friends and family. The media is heavily censoring this, by ignoring it or calling it a pure propaganda trick of the west(like other countries werent affected…). Meanwhile the population doesnt react at all, even if they hear about it because they already know and expect their political elite to embezzle billions.
So let me ask you if we now get what we deserve(reap what we sow) what will those countries and leaders who are even more corrupt, warmongering, racicst and fascist reap?
Completely incoherent. The corruption of politicians is global: if you haven’t worked that out yet, then you must be a bit slow. My point is about the message that Europe has sent the world — namely, “we used to support human rights, but we don’t give a fuck now”. And your response is to deny that the message has been received?! Let me remind you of what the EU’s politicians said in the middle of last year: “we need to send out the message that illegal immigrants are not welcome in Europe” — by which, they meant refugees, of course. This was not some random nastiness — but organised nastiness. It bears comparison, although less severe, with the organised nastiness that Europe created in its last Great Depression of the 1930s. It’s not a new idea at all: in fact, it’s a European tradition. Of course, Greece is not part of that fascist tradition — one reason why it is a misfit in contemporary Europe.
““we used to support human rights, but we don’t give a fuck now””
There are a myriad contradictions between the intentions behind and the consequences of our laws up to the point where our laws/democratic traditions contradict each other.
When millions of people demand their right to asylum and to set upper limits clashes with our human rights, yet a majority of people do not want unlimited immigration, do you deny humand rights? Or do you deny the democratic will of your people?
On a bit smaller scale, when you accept refugees, do you force them (at least for the first few years) to live in the country/city/village you decide and therby somewhat restrict their right to move freely?
Or do you let them live wherever they want fully knowing that this will lead to ghettos like molenbeek or new cologne?
What’s your problem? Don’t you have enough Heroin for them? As it was the main reason to invade Afghanistan, to keep Heroin prices decent for all the new homeless. Your weapons industry is still run by capitalists and other criminals and not by the army, blood-phones are still allowed, so is the genocide for them and all other genocides for “your” resources. Unlike humans in most countries you destroy, you can’t feed yourself, your food is produced by only 300.000 people, instead of asking robots and computers that destroy millions of jobs to pay taxes you rob your pensioners and need more slaves.
Since when do you know about climate warming? Since a genocide called Hurricane Mitch and that’s already 20 years ago. Did you do anything like stopping production of cars, banning all cars from the streets, no, nuthing, you just keep on destroying the whole planet and massmurdering millions for your decadent luxury, so now you can take all people from Pakistan and Bangladesh who lost their homes because of your fucking Autobahn freedom shit to kill people. But who knows may be nobody will come if you tell’em cars are terrorists and all get jailed in garages or get blown up to planet Mars.
So while in different locations and at several occasions golden dawn under police protection or just “chatting” with cops and authorities all work together in racist and fascist attacks you come up with your romantic homestory.
Why don’t you have some research before to figure if there was any family relation between the by cops “escorted” man and the “baby-killer”, some say that on TV it looks like that the father is trying to save the toddler from attacks after being pushed by a copper: youtu.be/jqGDZFExIZo
And if it all would have been like in this (crazy) cartoon kathimerini.gr/855789/sketch/epikairothta/politikh/skitso-toy-dhmhtrh-xantzopoyloy-070416 why he wasn’t arrested, as to arrest him would serve the authorities? Instead one can see him later on hanging out, like relaxed waiting for investigations from child-protecting organizations, government or justice.
“The man told media that he was a relative of the detainee and that he reacted to the detention. ” I reacted. I took the baby in my hands. First. I will kill my five children, then I will kill myself.””
Its in the article, and since my first impuls is to trust KTGs research Im fine with this. According to the article the man said this himself. I realise that this is not a high enough standard for facts that dont fit into your worldview, but then does anything meet that standard?
Btw. simply look at the video from 0:10 to 0:15 the way he handles his 2 month old child alone makes me want to punch him ( and for the record I havent hit a person in my life). Take that in combination with his words and that man is clearly unfit to be a father.
“”… ask yourself how you would react…””
Exactly the point. How would we react ? The answer is, that we don,t consider behaviour like this normal, the guy would lose all his friends, nobody will answer his phone anymore and so on….
But THEY consider this normal and that because their countries will stay hellhole, there is no such thing like moderate islam and terrorism will flourish. They are different from us. Let,s deal with it.
Not without reason 25-50% of all songs in punk and metal are anti-religion. So to make sure that the Middle-Eastern religion called Christianity will not leave its “moderate” modus one has to ban all religions, put’em into madhouse or at least keep it away from kids in (pre)school and family until they are 21, kids are not stupid, don’t have any religion and they don’t have racism also, both comes through manipulation and is child-abuse.
That religion has nothing to do with believe is simply explained by the fact that 99% of all believers would have had a totally different religion if they’d been born somewhere else in a total different environment.
There were also bomb-attacks in the name of Zeus last year(s), the only religion without terrorism is the Western religion of Manitou and the Rainbow-Snake, will you please leave and stop the occupation of this peaceful people’s land.
There is no such thing as THEY. Read what I wrote, for every bad example I can give you a good one too.
My point is that to indiscrimatly open the gates for everyone who wants to come here(which is what Gigi and Xenos demand) is not only not doable for much longer, it is not DESIRABLE as well.
I want us too help as much people as possible in the best way possible.
And that includes sending 25 year old moroccans males home, so that syrian families can come.
Kindly do not inform me, or anyone else, of what I “demand”. Your manipulation of facts is on record. For your information, what I demand is both conformity with international and EU legal obligations as well as humanitarian considerations of those fleeing war and other extreme conditions.
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Moreover, the number of Moroccans and others with little or no claim to humanitarian protection is so small that it can be ignored. Over 90% of the refugee flow into Greece in the last 15 months were from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq; 40% were children. Your trick of focusing on an irrelevant detail to “prove” a general case is a typical cheap lawyer’s trick. Kindly stop wasting our time with your right wing nationalist propaganda.
I apologize for laying words into your mouth, you are certainly right to reprimand me for that.
“…conformity with international and EU legal obligations as well as humanitarian considerations of those fleeing war and other extreme conditions.”
“Let me remind you of what the EU’s politicians said in the middle of last year: “we need to send out the message that illegal immigrants are not welcome in Europe””
Some politicians(orban and co.) were trying to send that message last summer and since then its become more and more(almost all by now).
But, this is certainly not the message that was received by the refugees(until now when the borders have actually closed).
The message received last summer were the guys at munich station chanting refugees are welcome here and merkels there will be no upper limit.
I dare say what politicians say is of rather little interest to most trying to flee here. The relevant thing is whether the border are actually open/ whether they have a chance of receiving help here instead of just being sent back.
You want conformity with international law yet “The corruption of politicians is global” and NO country on this planet is completly adhering to those and few, perhaps none come as close to adhering to them as (some) european countries.
” Your trick of focusing on an irrelevant detail to “prove” a general case is a typical cheap lawyer’s trick. ”
I know you can not invalidate statistics by singular example, thats why Ive noted twice that I could as easily have given positive examples.
My general point I wanted to make is that the people coming here are of all types. There are people fleeing war, there are people fleeing oppression/persecution because of politicalwork or their their religion or their sexuality, there are people fleeing poverty.
Just take the people fleeing war.I know of people leaving because their house and schools were bombed, I know a few guyy who lived in rather safe neighborhood but assads troops wanted to draft them, I know of a guy who had a blog and only by chance did not get arrested. But I also know of at least 2 guys who probably fought for ISIS and/or al nusra.
“Moreover, the number of Moroccans and others with little or no claim to humanitarian protection is so small that it can be ignored.”
There arent that many Moroccans coming (about 5 % for all maghreb states compared to 3/4 from the 3 states you named), but of those more then 90% are men and about half get caught by the police within their first year being here(compared to 0.l% of all syrians coming here)
And does a 25 year old heterosexual nonpoltical guy from nonwar zone morocco have the same need for humanitarian protection like a 12 year old girl from syria?
Can a guy who was a (noncoerced) soldier for a time and then decided to come here claim the same rights, even though by our laws he should be in jail?
Until now the only qualification needed to get asylum was to be strong and rich enough to somehow make it to europe.
You say Im wrong in suspecting you want to indiscriminatly let everyone in, so Im asking what to you would be reasoable criteria for deciding who can stay and who must go back? And Id really wish you could be more specific then just conformity with international law, because you know that 100% adherence to those wont happen any time soon, after all we both agree that “The corruption of politicians is global”(so lets try to have the least corrupt ones).
It’s not a Greek problem when rightwing police and judges don’t act against criminals in Germoney but it’s fitting the picture with NSU-parastal terrorists that murder Greeks and Turks for 10 years and Germoney laughs about Greece when it asks friendly about war-debts but the ex-minister-dude who was laughing the most did pay with a painful death, so thanks for this.
International human rights law (UN and ECHR) is very clear about who is entitled to protection. You ask irrelevant questions, because the courts have ruled on such issues for 50 years. It’s not the refugees’ fault that useless countries in Eastern Europe know nothing of law, nothing of human rights, and are quite happy to remain ignorant. It is, however, the fault of the EU for allowing such countries into the EU.
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It is also the duty of the EU to cease all financial payments to countries that cannot abide by the rule of law, and who attack refugees and especially families or children. These countries need a good kick up the backside, to learn their lesson. And I for one will stop respecting the claim of fYRoM to the name “macedonia” and will instead call them MaceDonkeys. This criminal and ignorant behaviour has to stop.
These question are asked by reality, by actual problems that are abound.
How can you call me naive and then tell me that you think citing laws you KNOW will be ignored(at least in part) is the solution. On that level any discussion purely hypothetical. Its like saying I have the solution for hunger in africa: Lets just all follow the golden rule and behave morally. A its not gonna happen, B. that still leaves questions of how when and where.
“It is also the duty of the EU to cease all financial payments to countries that cannot abide by the rule of law, and who attack refugees and especially families or children.”
So we stop payments to everyone???
Im all for stopping any kinds of weapons sales, but this?
Turkey isnt abiding it, so we shouldnt pay money to support the refugee camps there? I dare say there is no to little rule of law in many african countries, so we shouldnt send them any (instead of the measly amount we are sending now) aid money?
Sorry, the world is more complex.
This is senseless his interest is only Germany, not Greece otherwise he would know how many people were murdered by his bed-fellow Merkel via suicide and missing medicine in Greece.