Israeli warships will launch a naval exercise with real ammunition in Greek territorial waters on July 18, 2012. The exercise will take place in the north of the island of Milos (Kyclades) in the Agean Sea.
Only Israeli warships will perform the exercise at the ‘shotting area’ Karavia (Milos/Myrtoo Sea), while the the coordination and monitoring will be performed by radars on the Parnitha Mt in Greek mainland. Until now no information has been given regarding the type and number of vessels that will participate. And most likely no information would be made public on the vessels, due to traditional Israeli military policy.
A NAVTEX, a maritime warning about the safety of ships and airplanes has been already issued.
The exercise in Greek territorial waters takes part in the context of Greek-Israeli military cooperation and coincidentally a couple of days after the 4-day visit of Greek navy commander Vice Admiral Kosmas Christidis in Israel, during which he met with OC Navy Vice- Adm. Ram Rothberg and sailed on a Sa’ar 5-class missile ship.
The exercise worries Ankara to see its former friend (Israel) in close cooperation with its former foe (Greece).
“Israeli war vessels are now under our noses” Turkish portal Habermonitor wrote.
However it is not just Turkey that sees with discomfort the Israel exercise in the area. This week it was also Cyprus’ turn to look sour at Israeli, British and Turkish naval forces simultaneous maneuvers near Cyprus.
Cypriot media reports claimed that Israel and the UK requested and received permission from Cyprus to hold their maneuvers but that the Turkish Navy did not, and as a result Nicosia was considering submitting an official complaint to the United Nations. (further reading Jerusalem Port)
With so many different interests the Eastern Mediterranean Sea will continue to be the field of high tensions, especially when it comes to naval exercises.
I think this is great and I support Greece 1000 % as a Greek American in this.
I think this is great and I support Greece too as Africa man
Let’s hope that the growing Greek-Israeli military cooperation will act as an effective counterweight to Turkey’s expansionist policy.
Let’s rather hope that military cooperation everywhere in the world grinds to a complete halt and the money wasted on the military and their toys everywhere is put to some proper use. Like enabling people to live instead of finding more ways of killing more of them…
Absolutely. The way in which the Greek people have been tricked into paying for military purchases from Germany and France (not to mention the USA and UK) is a disgrace. It is not accidental either that the country with the highest spending as proportion of GDP on the military after the USA and Israel, is also the country which has allowed ministers to embezzle hundreds of millions of euros (2 billion by some estimates) while the Greek military remains largely unprofessional and staffed by untrained kids.
This is all a big scam against Greek taxpayers. I note that the proto-malakas Papandreou said and did nothing about reducing military expenditure; nor does Samaras. They prefer to close hospitals and other vital institutions.
The more they cut wages, close hospitals and in general kill of the “welfare state” or what’s left of it, the better they will look after the army. They might just need them to keep doing what they are doing. And of course, any government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul…
Sadly, you are right. On both counts.
Sometimes excessive military spending isn’t necessary and governments around the world could use the money instead to better the lives of their citizens. But, when the Greek airspace and its territorial waters are regularly violated by Turkish fighter jets and warships, when Turkey has deployed its Aegean Army to directly threaten the Greek islands, another Turkish Army consisting of 100,000 of its best trained and equipped troops is deployed across the Evros river region, I’d call the situation as CLEAR & PRESENT DANGER. Moreover, in violation of a plethora of UN resolutions, the continuous Turkish occupation of 36% of the Cypriot Democracy since 1974, and Turkey’s 2003 “Sledgehammer” plan to simultaneously attack Greece across the Evros river region, and to land its forces on four different Greek islands, further reinforces the dangers of Turkish expansionist policies.
Last year Turkey even threaten the Cypriot Democracy militarily in an effort to prevent the country from exploring and exploiting its oil and natural gas resources. The selection by the Cypriot government of the American company Noble Energy and the Israeli company Delek Group Ltd to proceed with the exploitation of its energy Block 12, forced Turkey to backpedal. Both President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu were crystal clear, they were determined to protect their energy companies against any threat or attack.
The close military cooperation between Greece and Israel could deter Turkey from pursuing its megalomaniac and grandiose plans of using its military might to dominate the region.
“The close military cooperation between Greece and Israel could deter Turkey from pursuing its megalomaniac and grandiose plans of using its military might to dominate the region.”
It will certainly end up costing the Greek state a good few dollars more that what it’s costing now, and that is already far too much. the only reason for military existance is military existance.
And military sabre rattling never decides who’s right. It only decides who’s left…
It’s a price most Greek people are willing to pay in order to defend their rights, freedom, civilization and the territorial integrity of the motherland.
The “right” to pay the losses of foreign banks, the “freedom” to work in foreign countries? Just get real will you.
Brandishing bigger and deadlier weapons than somebody else is not exactly a sign of civilization either, it is an indication of serious Neanderthal deficiency, and has the same result. They are extinct.
A country and its civilization are defined by it’s people, not by it’s military might.
Civilizations are able to survive and flourish in perpetuity only when they’ve the military might and the staunch determination to protect their way of living from foreign invaders.
Civilizations flourish on the freedom of their people to express their diversity, their uniqueness, creativity, intelligence and humanity. It thrives on the freedom of it’s people to freely embrace and accept others for thier civilization. Civilization is not a competition between nations, and no civilization is ever “the best”.
Civilizations are neither served nor protected by the military, they are destroyed whenever the military get involved. There is no place for militarism in any civilization worthy of the name.
Any civilization that accepts the military as a necessary part of its existance immediately signs its own death warrant with that acceptance.
The waving of flags, stamping of leather boots and brandishing of weapons achieves one thing, and one thing only, death. Death of nations, death of civilizations, death of entire peoples, death of culture, death of humanity.
Most of the world’s largest economies, US(1), China (2), Japan (3), France (5), UK(7), Russian Federation (9), India (11), have very powerful offensive and defensive military capabilities. The US, Russia, France UK and China are some of the largest exporters of military equipment and weapons systems in the world. Economic and military might are often intertwined. Turkey’s impressive economic growth over the past 2-3 years had been accompanied by an equally impressive increase in its military spending and power. Having a powerful military-industrial-complex is mostly about good paying high-tech jobs, R&D and manufacturing prowess and supporting an export-oriented economy.
It’s naïve, utopian and dangerous for Greece to adapt a policy of appeasement, giving up and cutting & running. People advocating drastic reductions in Greece’s annual military spending are most likely have ulterior motives, have no grasp of the true nature of the ever increasing Turkish threat, are unaware of the history of the Greek-Turkish relations and their views are simply anachronistic and erroneous.
I think you have missed some episodes in the Greek-Turkish relations, Nicholas
YYYYAAAAAAAAWWWWNNNN. And then he woke up. These days, even little boys don’t play soldiers any more Nicolas, these days we play banks.
You know, the US with all their military might have a trade deficit of close to 650 billion $ in 2011. Described as the biggest threat to the USA, by the US government themselves. Not some army here or there, no, trade deficit, in other words, money! And guess what, most (75%) of that deficit is owed to…. indeed, China. Those Chinese know where the real power lies, in money, not in weapons. Weapons are a handy commodity to keep idiots like the North Koreans happy, nothing more. But money is the real thing. And they are actually starting to use it in Greece as well, did you know that? Since the Germans pulled out, the Chinese are drastically increasing their lending to Greek shipping. And before you know it, the famous Greek shipping empire will be owed by China. Despite all the weaponry. And they are also looking at buying a harbour or two for what they know will soon enough be their shipping empire. While they are literally laughing all the way to the bank, people like yourself are staring themselves blind on perceived threats and fake nationalism. Which is one of the main reasons the Chinese are indeed laughing the way the do. Money buys infrastructure, money buys complete countries, people and all. Weapons mindlessly destroy it.
You are 150 years out of date, with this militaristic and nationalistic nonsense. Things have completely shifted and at least until now, military power is no more than backup to economic power/ The invaders come not with guns, but with full purses, to buy up Greece cheap. Do you intend to waste what little money Greece actually has on buying military hardware from the Germans to fight fictional bogeymen from Turkey?
Are you forgetting that the Greeks were enslaved by the Ottoman Turks for nearly 400 yrs, and Greece was recognized as an independent nation 180 yrs ago, in May 1832 ? When an independent nation is incapable of defending its rights and territorial integrity it could be destroyed, ethnically cleansed, annexed and enslaved by foreign invaders. That’s what happened to the Greek Cypriots 38 yrs ago.
I’ve no doubt that the military cooperation and the coordination between the Greek and Israeli armed forces would expand in the co-development and co-production of advanced military equipment and weapons systems. I hope that Greece would soon acquire the same effective deterrence capabilities Israel currently possesses.
Would you ever get real? The days of weapons, fancy airplanes etc. are over and done with. War is fought on a totally different level, as Guest (Xenos) quite rightly points out. It’s far cheaper, much more effective, and far less messy. You even end up with airports and harbours you can sell instead having to rebuild them…
The only effect acquiring the “same effective deterrence capabilities as Israel” will have is a bigger desire to destroy the place by idiots who think they can do better in this armement lunacy. And who gains? The German and French death merchants. Everybody else loses. As for the patriotric claptrap of enslavement etc, we Irish know all about it, and got stuck in the same rut for a long long time. What sorted the problem? Weapons? bombs? Tried it for 800 years, and got nowhere. The solution? A chat and a handshake, quite literally. Time to take of the outdated blinkers and learn the real lessons instead of repeating the war-mongering propaganda you read in military magazines.
I wonder where this totally illogical, outdated and dangerously unquestioning support for the the global murder machinery comes from. Spend some time in the USA by any chance?
More of the nationalist propaganda? Try reading some real history books about the Ottoman period, including those written by Greek academics. You will find that ordinary Ottoman citizens were treated rather better than the working classes of Britain, German lands, and most other places.
Of course, they were heavily taxed, which is why Greeks learned how not to pay taxes. That is not the same as being enslaved — regardless of some policies that the Ottomans had that were unpleasant.
So now we all understand why the Turks treat Ottomans so well and murdered 1 million Greeks.
They were at war, Yoghourt. Do you think the British, French or anyone else behaved better in war and with civil insurrection? i am referring to the period up until 1821
Abject nationalistic nonsense. It’s because of paranoid irrational people like you that the Greek taxpayer has been cheated of billions of euros, and now has to pay even more.
I have it from a former Lieutenant-General and head of the airforce, that the invasions of Greek airspace are nothing more than a good way for the Turkish military to train. The Greek airforce sees it the same way. It is the useless Greek politicians and corrupt media who report these things as a threat to Greece.
besides, do you really think that Turkey could be stopped by the useless Greek military forces? They would have less success than Greece had in stopping Mussolini.
it agrees with my sources: nothing more than mutual training and a bit of territorial claims
But if it would have been Greece and not Syria stopping such dogfights it would have been much closer to war…
WOW, Greek and Turkish fighter jets are training together over the Aegean Sea. So according to you, 1st Lt Nikos Sialmas and Captain Kostas Iliakis both lost their lives while conducting military training exercises with the THK (Turkish Air force) and not while preventing violations of Greece’s airspace and defending the motherland. According to you, the two Turkish armies numbering 180,000 troop strong presently deployed across the Evros river region and on the opposite side from the Greek islands, are just there to train with the Greek army. The Turkish invasion and continuous occupation of Northern Cyprus for the last 38 yrs is just another figment of my imagination. The ongoing Turkish provocations, the military exercises, and the threats of further military actions against the Cypriot Democracy are just myths. WOW.
I’m just wondering, what are your sources of information?
we didn’t say that they train together.
What are your sources of information? According to the Hellenic Air Force, Greek F-16 C/Ds and Mirage 2000-5MK2 and Turkish F-16 C/Ds and F-4 E Terminator 2020 fighter jets are often engage in intense dogfights over the Aegean Sea. In some cases fighter jets from both countries are armed with short and medium range air-to-air missiles, such as Sidewinder, IRIS-T, MICA and AMRAAM. In 2006, the Hellenic Air Force’s Captain Konstantinos Iliakis gave his life while trying to prevent Turkish RF-4 Es from taking pictures of anti-aircraft missile batteries located on the island of Crete. About a month ago, the same type of aircraft, a Turkish RF-4E type aircraft was shot down over the Syrian coast line.
Are you saying that armed Greek and Turkish fighter jets are involved in mutual exercises while engaging in dogfights and trying to get a lock on each other?
my sources are airforce people and politicians. that’s the bitter reality, Nicholas. how do you want your air force to train? of course, as the Turkish jets fly inside the Greek FIR, the Greeks could charge them with a training fee of some 30 million US$ per month. Unfortunately accidents happen… Not only in combat-training.
The Greek fighter jets don’t scramble because they’re going to have a scheduled air combat training exercise with the THK (Turkish Air Force). They do so because the Turkish fighter jets are violating the FIR Athens, refuse to provide their flight plans to the Greek authorities, violate the Greek airspace, take aerial pictures of Greek military installations, and fly at very low altitudes over the Greek islands of Farmakonisi, Agathonisi, Samos, Kos and Kastelorizo. Please recheck your sources of information.
on the other hand, Greeks fly into Turkish FIR, but just a little lol. With the satellite technology nowadays , do you believe anyone needs to take any aerial pictures at all? it’s waste of flight time. Fly low attitudes does not mean they’ve secured any kind of ‘rights’. Try to look at the whole from a distance.
I agree with you that satellites can provide useful information. But many nations can’t afford to have the reconnaissance, surveillance and intelligence gathering capabilities of military satellites the US, Russia, China, India and France currently possess. Some military jets are equipped with advanced electro-optic sensors, SARS(Synthetic Aperture Radar Systems), ELINT (Electronic Intelligence) and real-time data uplink systems. Some systems have spot mode operations enabling a higher degree of detail and finer, day, night and all weather moving and stationary target discrimination.
When the Turkish RF-4Es escorted by F-16 C/Ds fighter jets are flying at a very low altitudes over the Greek islands of Farmakonisi, Agathonisi, Samos, Kos and Kastelorizo, they’re not doing it just to intimidate and frighten their inhabitants. They executing these missions in order to acquire high resolution images and videos of Greek military installations. Other Turkish aircraft with ELINT capabilities are flying near by in order to evaluate the response times of the HAF(Hellenic Air Force) and monitor the communication frequencies between the Greek fighter pilots with ground and airborne radar stations. Furthermore, they identify and monitor the positions of Greek anti-aircraft missile batteries, their radar frequencies, response times and trying different jamming technics.
countries that cannot afford own satellite surveillance just buy it – or even better get it from ‘google earth’. military camps, bases and other interesting military facilities remain more or less static over the years. unless some extra ordinary mobilization or army deployment.
First time I was in Kos in 2004, I was the only to be worried by the dogfight taking place over our heads. Residents told me ‘no worries, normal here’. Same happened of my second visit on the island. By the third, I didn’t pay any attention either.
I ahve already stated one of my sources, but I have also heard the same directly from pilots. The incidents you mention were accidents.
As far as Cyprus is concerned. this is ENTIRELY a political problem — its origins, the behaviour of Greece under the dictatorship, the reaction of the Turks, and the failure of the Annan PLan. Idiots who follow the political propaganda of their own failed politicians should not be allowed to vote.
Mussolini was stopped and came back with Hitler.
It is a very bad idea for Greece to be involved in supporting Israel. The USA is using Greece to defend its regional power base, and puts Greece in opposition to the entire Arab World and Iran. It indicates the extent to which Samaras and Papandreou are caught up in American political crap.
I have to agree with you on that one. We all know what Israel has been doing in the Middle East since its creation, and the atrocities it is committing seem to be getting worse as the time passes. We are being used as pawns here.
Although, I don’t agree with the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians, I firmly believe that the Jewish state will never allow the recurrence of some horrific events in its history. It will never ever forget the extermination of six million Jews by the Nazis at the concentration camps of the Majdanek, Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Ravensbrück, Mauthausenand and Theresienstadt. It won’t allow the Arab armies to threaten its existence again as they did when they attacked Israel in 1948, 1967 and 1973. The only democracy in the Middle East won’t be intimidated and threatened by a bunch of dictators and monarchs presently torturing and killing their own people.
Yes, you’re right about that. Instead, they have adopted the Nazi tactics for themselves, and treat the Palestinians as the Jews were treated by the Third Reich.
Do you know the psychology literature on abused children? They are beaten or raped by their parents, then when they are adults they do the same to their own children. This is how many Israelis behave: it is very normal, very understandable, and very evil.