Finally. German Social-democrats woke up from the long sleep caused by Merkel’s spell. Germany’s Vice Chancellor, Economic Minister and chief of SPD, Sigmar Gabriel, warned of “gigantic consequences” for Europe in case of a Greek bankruptcy.
Speaking to German media, Sigmar Gabriel said exactly:
“It is good that Germany and France try again to find a solution then the political consequences of a Greek bankruptcy would be gigantic for eurozone. I believe that many people have the impression that a terror with end is better than a terror without end is the truth, then if a stone is out of Europe than Europe would be in another aggregate status.”
source: German N24 TV. Video in German
PS I hope I heard Gabriel correctly as he had been swallowing vowels and consonants so nicely.
I guess the terror translates in: “It’s better to make a painful break than draw out the agony” and as N24 belongs to Springer/Blöd it’s already deleted.
„Die politische Konsequenz einer Insolvenz Griechenlands in der Eurozone wäre gigantisch“, warnte der Vizekanzler. Viele Menschen hätten wohl den Eindruck, besser ein Ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne Ende: „Die Wahrheit ist, dass, wenn der erste Stein aus dem europäischen Haus herausbrechen würde, Europa in einem anderen Aggregatzustand wäre.“
Ts, ts KTG – how naive…
“I have nothing to do with what is coming next.”
This is in line with all the others who comment, but do not have any responsibility or decision making capacity, not do they pay for their cheap advise.
It is very simple: Syriza ridiculed Europe’s decision making facilities and they strike back in order to maintain the integrity of the rest of Europe.
Losing this would be way more costly than a Grexit (not even 3% of Europe’s economy) could ever become.
Consider one thing: how far would the Brits take it when already a mini tail at Europe’s periphery would wag the dog?
This is the huge misconception of Syriza: they believe that a Grexit is considered the biggest catastrophe for Europe. It is not. It is spreading the Greek corruption disease with all associated rule breaking and bending to the rest of Europe.
It is the contaigon with corruption that has to be stopped. And it will be stopped. Not necessarily with a Grexit or an ELA cut, but with neverending stagnation, until the Greek voter has understood.
The best of it all: the agressive tone of Syriza and especially Varoufakis has enabled and facilitated this strategy. A more conciliant diplomacy would have made the creditor’s hard line way more difficult. Needless to say what this attitude has done to the Greek reputation amongst those who are supposed to pay for the Greek´s charity case in eternity.
Syriza did not understand that they need to win over the rest of Europe rather than a few radicals at home. The transition from election campaign mode to leadership and diplomacy mode was completely screwed up. Because the new Syriza government amateurs did not understand the rules and the constraints of the game.
You leave in a parallel universe. The EU rules are customized to the power and influence of each state. The UK already has special treatment in an array of issues, so has denmark on imigration. As for Germany and France they do with the EU economic regulation whatever they want and they were the first to break the deficit rules. SO take your moralizing and stick it where ever you feel confortable with.
I do not know if for political reasons the IV Reich is willing to kick Greece out of the euro. The reason being that if the Greek government actually defends its people it will give an awsome example to all other countries in the EU (namely the periphery), indeed there are very strong forces that are willing to take any risk except to get an “honourable” agreement with Greece (like the traitor Spanish and Portuguese governments, although in the end they will do what their IV Reich masters tell them to do). That is exactly why I think the Greek people must be ready to leave the euro, the irrationality on the other side is too great.
If indeed an agreement is made is because the US forces the IV Reich hand, because you know, Germany at end is just an occupied country… Where tens of thousand of US troops are stationed. So while they pose high and mighthy inside the EU they are truly nothing but a US colony in the world scale.
So, for the US getting a deal, even if it favors a bit the Greeks and the peoples of Europe in general (not the 1%), is not that bad. It will not be the US 1% paying the financial and political bill. For the US 1% it is much more riskier to let Greece out of the Euro and run wild. And the US 1% own the German and have all EU lilliputian states by the balls.
“others who comment but do not have any responsibility or decision-making capacity”….
Are we to conclude from this that you are a policy maker? I do hope not, because clearly your mental abilities are seriously incapable of handling the complexity of these issues.
Of course, regardless of your answer to this question, you seem to be stating that only policy-makers and investors have the right to debate the issues. May I remind you of a concept — stated explicitly in the European Treaties and all national constitutions — called democracy? We know that the bureaucrat-fascists of the Eurogroup despise this principle, but this open admission is very interesting.
Ladies and Gentlemen: allow me to introduce the authoritarian anti-democrat (who may be a civil servant, and most definitely is German). Heil Chris! Willkommen in unserem Haus! But please don’t evict us, we know that is your intention.
Your constant insulting is nothing but a bankruptcy declaration of you arguments.Rather
When everything else fails, you resort to Nazis, 4th Reich and all the other crap.
Again: I am not a German, no matter how paranoid you act. What does now remain of your “arguments”?
Small hint: nobody else besides you is responsible for your failure. Not the Nazis, not the Germans and not me. You have screwed up. Big time.
You true believer might be so polite if you call that a disease to call it German or just extradite the dozens of German managers that corrupted corrupt Greeks with 2 billion Euro and made the Olympic Games costs 2,3 times more than in Sydney or Barcelona and put the seed for the disaster.
How the EU is blocking Greek measures against German corruption one can see here:
I can agree to oalot of the criticism towards germany voiced by ktg or other here in the comments but this notion that the germans brought corruption towards greece because you there are a few scnadals is just plain wrong(though ive seen it quite a few times now). Firsts of all it always takes two for bribery and second and more importantly when talking about whole countries and nations singular incidences say nothing, because even the biggest scandal is only a small anecdote between the millions of people that were talking about here.
Or in other words, you can find corruption or even a big scandal in every country. What is not the same is the overall level of corruption and for that id refer you to transparancy international, certainly an at least somewhat neutral source on this.
germany on place 12/175 with 79/100 points
greece on place 69/175 with 43/100 points.
If you close your eyes to your own, homemade problems it wont matter one bit how soon the austerity end or how high any haircut will be, in the end the problems will return. Or from my perspective, there is enough to fault us germans for that is true, no neeed to invent other stuff 😉
As there are not all cases reported in German media – except in “SZ” – just search for “corruption” “Siemens” aso through griechenlandblog and you’ll find a lot, but you’d better read more careful as I didn’t wrote that Germans brought corruption!
Anyway for Germoney 2 billions is not that much but for Greece and other countries it’s a lot.
It’s right with 2 and tango but the point most people miss is that this corruption makes it even more expensive, not to mention that selling trash counts also like selling too expensive shit nobody would want without bribes.
Olympic Games fucked Greece more up just like football Brazil and South Africa, without the bribes there would have been up to 10 billions less lost and also all these now useless stadiums wouldn’t rott and produce more costs.
Syriza ridiculed Europe’s decision making facilities?
Nice trick. Rewind and Rephrase:
By choosing Syriza over New Democracy and PASOK , Greek people ridiculed Europe’s decision making facilities.
Wow, shame on you all!
I’m following the KTG blog already since a while. I liked the other perspective on the Greek crisis, the exchange of other arguments and possible solutions.
But the atmosphere in the blog is really poisoning since a while, and I’m not talking about Chris. I disagree with some of his conclusions and his speech is sometimes strong, but he is just arguing.
The answers from the Greek posters are the real Bild-Zeitung level.
“IV Reich”, “your mental abilities are seriously incapable of handling the complexity of these issues”, “Heil Chris!”.
May I remember you that it is Greece where real Nazis are in the parliament and almost-Nazis even in the government coalition?
And before you call me also a German Nazi…
Yes, I’m living in Germany since years, but came from Poland, country which suffered a lot during the WWII. My grandma was “kidnapped” from the street and brought to Germany, to work in a arms factory. But she was able to forgive after years and had even some friends here in Germany. Yepp, I met some Nazis here, but I met much more people who really helped us when we arrived here. People who gave me German lessons in their free time, teachers who helped me to catch up.
Are you asking for solidarity? Europe is showing solidarity with Greece since 20 years. Greece was always getting the most money from the EU funds, almost 200 billions until now. Most of this money came from Germany and the Germany newer questioned it, like for example the British did.
The African refugees may arrive mostly in Greece and Italy, but you know that most of them are travelling further to Sweden and Germany. And Germany is not sending them back to you, although it would be required by the Dublin rules. It is a shame for me to see how the Polish government is acting in this question, refusing to take over any of the refugees, while getting the most EU funds now (more than Greece currently). Yeah, this is the European solidarity, only valid if the Germans are paying.
Almost all my colleagues in the office or friends in the pub are voting for a bail-out for Greece and a compromise regarding the conditions. Of course they want to get the money back one day, but is it different in Greece? Is a lender in Greece called Nazi if he expects a payback one day?
KTG, is this the level of discussion you are expecting in your blog?
Start exchanging arguments instead of insults.
Or don’ you have any?
Frustration, fear, anger when the substance of oneself is under attack one lashes out, that is what you are seeing here.
Emotions pushing aside sense, all they have been hearing was how it was their fault, they don’t want to hear it. The troubles they go through every day, the pain of a collapsing society, the anger and the shame caused by a youth with no future are around them almost all the time.
They want a solution something that can free them of this situation, having an enemy makes it so much easier, especially when these people are the same that once did hurt you a lot.
All in all it is to be expected and I am sure that us Germans would do the same if we would be the ones suffering, no matter who caused it. In the end a scapegoat is more convenient than to actually tackle your homegrown problems.
KTG is a good example and case study of how the tones can shift in times of crisis.
You are talking about a few hundred refugees while in Greece have to stay some hundreds of thousands and over 90% of them got arrested in Western Greece, that means when trying to leave the country. Learn topographic or just try to “travel” from Greece to Germoney, as a refugee … through the mountains and Albania … good luck!
On the other hand the Greek government implements new citizenship-laws that will help families to stay in Greece.
That Germoney doesn’t “send back refugees” to Greece is not because they are big friends of humanity but simply the result of years of hard working protesters, in fact Germany and its justice was forced to stop deportations to Greece by the resistance from no border activists. Anyway all these “cases” are not closed and so the refugees have to stay and wait in camps that in Greece many people call concentration camps and as you can imagine, if the situation for refugees in Greece will get a bit better, because of a few thousand that will be part of the discussed EU relocation program, your Great Germany will send them back to Greece.
“Almost Nazis” (like CSU?) and “calling lenders Nazis” shows that you’re a victim of mass media.
tones can shift in times of crisis
Civilization has the thickness of the skin.
By poking it, you uncover the animal.
José Redinha, anthropologist