Nationalization of banks, halting the privatization of state-run enterprises, partial or complete debt cancellation for indebted households, wealth confiscation for those making false tax declarations: Leader of left-wing SYRIZA and main challenger of conservative Nea Dimocratia at the June elections, Alexis Tsipras revealed the party’s programme.
” We introduce our programme, a programme that does not request the Troika approval but the approval of the Greek people,” Tsipras said on Friday afternoon adding that “The memorandum [of Understanding] is the auto pilot to complete destruction.”
He declared as top priority of his [future] government “the cancellation of the Memorandum and its applicable laws” while he summarized the dilemma of June 17 elections in the phrase “SYRIZA or Memorandum”. The Memorandum “can either be applied or cancelled” he said.
He rejected the prolongation of fiscal consolidation as a solution to economic problems the country and said SYRIZA will pursue “new debt rescheduling in order to drastically reduce it, or a moratorium on debt and suspending interest payments until conditions for stabilization and recovery are there.”
Some points of SYRIZA economic programme are:
1) Replacement of MoU with National Recovery Plan
2) Unemployment benefit to be restored to 461 euro and to be prolonged for two years. Unemployment benefit also for self-employed.
3) Cancellation of MoU-imposed flexible work contracts.
4) Suspending payment of interest rates until stable conditions apply.
5) Cancellation of “emergency taxes” first of all for jobless
6) Rich to pay more 4% for the next 4 years.
7) Gradual decrease of V.A.T. and VAT minimization for food
8) Immediate decrease of VAT in tourism and catering
9) Freezing of privatizations of public organizations like telephone company OTE, railways TRAINOSE, water company EYTHAP, electric company PPC (DEI), the post office.
10) Immediate ‘freezing’ of cuts in social benefits, salaries and pensions
11) Nationalization of banks under ‘public and transparent control’.
To raise revenue to pay for such measures Tsipras plans to confiscate property from those who fail to pay taxes; sign a bilateral agreement with Switzerland on the taxation of savings of Greek citizens there; a radical reform of the tax system to redistribute wealth; and the introduction of a National Programmatic Agreement to raise taxes from ship owners and the maritime industry
Further he announced change of the elections law and cancellation of 50-seats bonus, change in the law protecting ministers, mutual agreements with neighboring countries for the markation of EEZ.
He stated that he will propose to Turkey to stop the armament race and to Skopje a FYROM- solution for the name issue.
To tell you the truth the programme is very thorough and I can’t trasnlate it here. Click For Labour Relations/Wages/Social State/Health Care,
PS Why do I think Lagarde, Merkel & Co would make concessions to Samaras in order to have him win? However, ND is far from forming an absolute majority government and potential pro-bailout partner socialist PASOK is going from bad to worse in the public opinion polls, with downwards tendency…
Sounds familiar….ahh!!!! Yes, this was like GAP’s platform in the fall of 2009. ΛΕΦΤΑ ΥΠΑΡΧΟΥΝ!!! ΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΧΑΧΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΧΑΧΑ!!!!!
After a quick glance over the proposals, I must say that I am duly impressed. Of course after the nauseating presentation of the total empty and stale plans of ND everything would look good. But I saw here real alternatives and even plans where some of the money needs to come from.
OK, the devil is in the detail and some of them are ‘strange’. To say the least. But at this moment I do not care one little bit that they want “a radical reform of the tax system” (great and please let that include all current tax officials!) “to redistribute wealth” (WTF?!) But ok, those things are to be expected and as long as it are things like ” raise taxes from ship owners and the maritime industry”.
The only big WHY that popped into my head and still is bothering me is this: Why did they wait until now to come with this detailed program. Why not in 2010 when the memorandum was written. Why not before the May 6 elections. Why did they wait until now. But then again: I don’t give a sh*t any more. Any chance will be good and this looks at first sight better then anything else that is around at the moment.
Please, let’s stop the sell off of this gorgeous country! Every Greek man and woman need to throw their support behind Syriza to stop the looting of Greece, the looting of her people and the looting of the future generations of Greeks.
Why are companies still flocking to countries like The Netherlands, where taxes are payed by almost all? I think YOU don’t get it Ann. Real companies decide on where to stay or go for a large part not on tax levels, but most of the time on security. Security to plan you business ahead for a couple of years. Security to know that your investments are safe and fruitful.
Greece lacked this kind of security for the last decade or more. And is now at an alltime low. No amount of tax-free regime will in the end keep viable businesses in your country. And what is the benefit of a complete industry if they don’t pay taxes? They are hiring more and more non-Greeks. So even that benefit is going fast.
Greece is the land of myths. And a lot of it’s citizens are suckers for myths. But you are falling for one of the biggest economic myths there is.
it is the damned bureaucratic system here, the corruption of ‘state’ officials -mostly Pasok, ND supporters who traded a public servant place against votes, and tax laws changing every once in a while. Even before the MoU.
“This is how many ND and PASOK voters feel, we need experience and help from EU technocrats to modernise the country” To hear this from a foreigner does no tmake much sense though…
What I meant with looting was:
-following an economic agenda that leads to bankruptcy as further removal of funds from the Greek economy (11,5B cuts are due by end of June) will destroy the Greek economy. Retailers are closing down in record numbers, the same with small to medium sized businesses that are the engine of the economy, income is down in all sectors, manufacturing orders are the lowest in EU. Having lost these important sectors, the economy of Greece will struggle to meet the obligations of the debt and continue the downward spiral until the final fall. Then, vultures will move in to grab bankrupt companies for peanuts
-privatizations and selling off of the public entereprises when the Athens stock exchange is below 500 points is a terrible loss of investments of the Greek people. Public entreprises are property of the Greek people and selling them at firesale prices destroys all value invested in these assets over the years by the Greek people. Ror which investments, the Greeks will derive no profits due to the low stock price at the point of the sale
-increase in property values (as required by troika re: memorandum) which will increase property taxes and price a lot of property owners out of the game. Properties like hotels in Halkidiki are sold for next to nothing to Russian and other foreign investors. Throughout Greece, companies are changing hands due to the downfall of the Greek companies (source: Imerisia, article, Dehellenization of the Greek economy)
-massive real estate sell offs to foreign investors like public land, public buildings and other public property
-Germany is moving on the same path they followed for East Germany and Polland, Der Spiegel explained this on an article a week ago. Here is the link:
http://www.thelocal.de/money/20120525-42761.html
-Turks are the most likely investors for port purchases according to Hurriet. Now, this may create some problems with respect to national security
-Privatizations of the public entreprises will cause a transfer of their debts to the state increasing the sovereign debt of Greece and making all proceeds from the sale negligible. Another problem is that all profits from sale on will be moved to the country of the investor and we know that most public companies except of OSE are profitable entreprises. So Greece will be losing on profits from its entreprises. Bookkeeping auditions are not a right of the Greek state, so we may not be able to control corruption in the future.
-Privatizations will also reduce jobs as private investors tend to decrease human capital (usually the largest expense) something that will add more unemployed into the Greek labour market of 22% unemployed.
The above are some of the concerns that I have.
Well Ann, your dad was lying to you. the old Nazi structure was kept in place in order to keep the structure of power and in support of the cold war. the only “expertise” that the Nazis your dad had supported had to do with the running of the concentration camps and the gas chambers and the killing of my family among many others.
there is nothing so complicated in the machinery of the state that even a cook can’t grasp. just look at idiocy of the black angel and the rest of the gang – all they can do is to walk from one catastrophe to another disaster. It is high time to give the reign of power to the “un-experienced”
In comparison, it seems Tspiras’ program is a bit less lunatic than Samaras. But that doesn’t say much, both plans are totally unrealistic and have a snowball’s chance in hell to become reality. What a choice for the voters, it’s like a fairy tale competition! Obviously, no change in Greek politics yet. The candidates promise the moon and the stars, only to shrug their shoulders after the election when they notice, to their surprise, that those assetts are out of reach. Essentially, their programs show that they believe the voters are idiots!
Syriza says it formed its programme after visits at and briefings from the Treasury and FinMin officials.
“Essentially, their programs show that they believe the voters are idiots!”
Spot on Gray!!!
The only thing that is likely to happen is the continuation of the memorandum because it is in fact the path of least destruction, and the only path.
As usual, we the Greek populace will have someone to “blame” after the election other than ourselves.
So Ann, what you are really saying is “let’s stick with those who have experience”, which in reality means, those who got us in the mess we are in in the first place, because they are the only alternative. Isn’t it through diversity of ideas and approaches that we reach a thing called consensus on which we act, instead of acting like a bunch of sheep being led to the slaughter by “experience”? That is of course the “correct” vote which the constant EU interference in Greece’s internal affairs is trying to achieve. Or have you something else in mind, maybe along the lines of Mr. Michael Pettis who states that “Greece would most likely end up as a sort of protectorate of Germany as part of some sort of write-off deal” Read the full article here:http://www.economonitor.com/blog/2012/05/europes-depressing-prospects-two-reasons-why-spain-will-leave-the-euro/
No? so pray tell us, what is the alternative to the self serving experience bunch we’ve had for the last 3 decades or so?
A new cultural revolution. A’la Mao.
A great experiment, with the same results. Famine.
Tsipras !!!
“Are these really left wing voters or simply young Greeks that have no idea of what happened in the past”
It doesn’t matter who these voters are. What does matter is what they are saying thorugh their vote: “enough is enough”. I doubt if there is anybody in this country who believes it it not going to be painful to get out of the mess the country is in. However, I also doubt if there is anybody left in the country who believes that the “medicine” handed out so far is effective. Even Samaras admits, through is (uncosted!) 18 point program that the medicine has been totally ineffective. And PASOK are simply suspicious in their silence.
So what do you want? Can’t trust people who don’t have “the experience”, you obviously can’t trust those who do have the experience (just look at where the country is at), you don’t want a different approach to business, although it is by your own admission on it’s knees. So what do you want? Right or wrong, Syriza are the only party who are actually trying to come up with an alternative, and they are being demonized from within as well as outside. But it is at least an alternative to the same old same old, which seems to be what you are really advocating…
this is absolute nonsense. You blame PASOK and ND for not doing what they had do, you reject Tsipras for not having achieved anything…
DEAR SYRIZA!
After a long discussion with Loukanikos and his comrades who all disliked the idea of the “Syndagma Dogs Party” with Louk as the main candidate because they don’t want any head of the state in general, it’s up to you!
It’s better to destroy the whole marine fleet as it exists now: Totally destructive and it has nothing in common with modern Greece. There are still 12 billions in EU-structure funds one can use to rebuild the whole marine fleet into modern ships driven by wind turbines, beside pedicabs, a bike lane network and supporting collectively run bike shops or bike cafès like Ciclofficina.
In the harbours one can also use the leftover power of these ships to feed the whole network. A network that will be build out of wooden framed wind mills that won’t harm nature like the concrete steel disasters. Imagine a fisher woman sailing around Amorgos and under the o.o.o. bauxite mine there will be a gas station to feed the engine of the boat with electricity that comes from wind mills even a wanderer guide can’t see, no animals get harmed and at the same time these mills will pump the water out of the grounds that Amorgos needs desperately; there is a hundreds of years old Greek tradition with wind mills and one could also take into consideration all the empty monasteries for maintain!
Solar parks will only be on already quilted areas that, after a few years won’t be quilted any more. All that will be followed by a bicycle industry, agriculture plans like the ones of the smart major of Alexandroupouli, restructuring the textile, bag and shoe productions, also connected with bike fashion (“messenger industry”) that will rock Athens Fashion Week, aso.
Important is
1st: It must be a collective process without authorities!
2nd: First restructure the Greek economy for itself and for feeding the populations of Greece; without staring like a rabbit at the “markets” and get away from import/export-dogma aka competition. It may take some time but all what a country needs it can produce.
3rd: Don’t do the same mistakes regarding tourism again and again, after 5 years all those tourists will enjoy a new trend in North Africa or so and leave a destroyed Greece behind as a run out Disneyland with then empty 800 cruiser friendly harbours.
4th: Restructuring of the Aegaen and Special Forces against brutal fishing; recruiting the S.F. out of dynamite fishermen.
With all that you don’t even need to hunt down 5 km into the Libyan Sea for oil or gas!
Here SYRIZA points out that there is money until end of October:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_01/06/2012_444874
Ann, although I agree with most of your comments here, KTG does have a point.
It looks like it has to be either ND or Syriza and since both seem like no solution, what other solution is there for Greece now.
Sadly, I wonder if Papademos should have been left in place for another few years and elections suspended until loans paid off?
At any rate, again, Ann, what’s the solution?
Not bad, after all. Of course it contains the usual spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow. That’s why I didn’t take Syriza seriously so far, even thought that they were dangerous. But now Tsipras finally offers solutions on the income side as well. If they are serious about a radical reform of the tax system and also reduce military spending there should be a change for the Greek budget to reach a primary surplus. If Syriza can achieve this, a moratorium on interest (and even debt) would make sense and prove to be helpful instead of destructive.
And who knows. If they are successful for some time, Syriza may even grow with their tasks and finally will even take on the overbloated public sector. Anyway with this program they are the only Greek party worth voting for at the moment. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed surely is king.
“He should have joined coalition with Kouvelkis, PASOK & ND, and together approached the EU with sensible requests for investments but continued with the modernisation of our public system.”
Which is exactly what he is doing, but without the millstone of ND and PASOK A and PASOK B around his neck, because it won’t and can’t work. We would inevitably end up with a watered down version of the policy at best, and guaranteed have a lot of powerstruggle going on within that coalition, maiking it ineffective. His has made it abundantly clear that he will not take Greece out of the Euro or the EU, he has alos made it abundantly clear that the ONLY way for Greece and the Eurozone/EU out of this is debt repayment coupled to economic growth. A stance in which he is joined by quite a few of the “foreign” technocrats” you so applaud, e.g Mr Dalara and MR Van Wijnbergen to name but 2. If you don’t know who the latter is, he is the man who very succesfully engineered the debt-restructuring of Mexico in the 1980s on behalf of the World Bank). Rejecting somebody because they haven’t “achieved” anything is the most ridiculous stance I’ve come across in a long time. That is precisely the recipe for “no change”. You could take this to it’s logical conclusion and not ever employ a fresh graduate or first time worker on the basis that they never “achieved” anything.
WhatI think is making you so scared Ann, is fear of the unknown. This is a situation where we are heading into the unknown, and anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you. What does an “experienced” politician do when facing the unknown and looking for an answer? He/she looks over his shoulder, looks back to see what did we do in the past to “solve” this. And people like you Ann have the normal, human reaction of applauding that politician for “doing something”, thereby missing the obvious, if what we did in the past had been effective it would it indeed have solved the problem and we would not be here again. At least Tsipras and SYRIZA look forward, with a costed, detailed plan. Will it work? I don’t know, nobody does. It depends a lot on a lot of outside factore, none in the least the willingness of the present European “Technocrats” to give it a chance and cooperate. But being the narcistic bunch that they are, there is not much chance of them doing that, as it would mean admitting they were wrong if Tsipras does pull it off, even in part. And that admission, as far as the political elite in Europa are concerned, is never going to happen, not even when blatantly obvious…
…and the solution is…?
“We need patience and stability now as there will be changes in the EU..” That is one thing you can be sure of, there will be changes. Irrespective of what Greece does, with our without Syriza and Tsipras.
Stability is something we will not have, either in Greece or in the EU, not for a long time. We can aspire to it, but… The sad thing is that stability does bring with it the enormous growth of greed, corruption and selfishness. And this is not a Greek phenomimum. The same thing happened in Ireland, in Iceland, in Norway a good few years ago, ditto in Sweden, the UK, Portugal, now Spain, soon enough Italy (it’s actually already happening, they just haven’t realized it yet). And you know what, the ones that do get out of it are those who have resources they can trade (oil,gas,wood…) What’s the common denominator between the PIGGS? No natural resources to speak off. So, they have to look at different ways of doing things. As does Greece. Or would you rather they did like the Irish and give away their children’s right to vote, just so as to be allowed to stay and the club and get done over once again? Don’t believe me? As a direct result of the vote, the very first thing that is being looked at in order to “save money” are the social welfare payments to parents of disabled children to compensate them for loss of earnings while staying at home and caring for their children themselves, instead of lamping the state with an enormous bill for doing so. Meanwhile, the cap on earnings for bank managers is being revieuwed upwards, becasue they cannot get managers of the “right calibre”. At 500,000€ a year? Who are you kidding?
The name of the game is to maintain the power of banks and financial institutions, and the sooner you realise that the sooner you’ll be able to come up with a suggestion for a solution you never seem to have…
And so Ephilant, what are we to do without strong banks and financial institutions? How do you propose we will function in the international trade community? How will we fund our public services without strong financial institutions? How will we guarantee the investments of Greeks? How will we fund our pension and health care systems? How will we fund our public services and education systems? Who or what will protect these things financially? Do you truly believe that nationalised banks that Tsipras is proposing will gain the trust of the international community or even Greek citizens? Would you trust the same group of people that run IKA and the eforia of Greece to hold all of your money?
Who says we will be without strong banks and financial institutions? Those opposed to the idea, who are who? Indeed, the banks and the financial institutions…The same argument was used in my “other” home,resulting in what the then government heralded as the “cheapest bank bailout in history”. At this stage 2 banks have gone to the wall, with a combined cost to the tax payer of over 90 billion € and more to come. the 2 banks left are quasy nationalized, one for 99%, the other somewherein the 60%, and the total bill runs higher than Greece’s debt. But because they are left to be “managed” by the same crew that sank them in the first place, you have what is commonly referred to in Euorpe as the biggest bank failure in living history. Some people even blame it for triggering the rest of the S**T in Europe. Lehmanns bank, Bering Bank,now JP Morgan? Small fry compared to the “strong banks and financial” institutions the Irish created, using the system proposed for use by Greece as well. It doesn’t work! After 2 years of messing and fiddling and creating poverty and economic desertification all over the place, it is getting worse instead of better.
On the other hand, take e.g Iceland. They (rightfully)let the banks go, told the gamblers to take their losses, and started all over again. Was it easy? No. are they out of the woods? No. Are they getting there? Oh yes. Iceland is one of the few countries where unemployment is dropping, living standards are slowly getting better,and banks are nationalized. How do they fund their pension and health care systems? With difficulty, but they manage. Nobody (other than the EU Elite) is for one minute suggesting that somebody somewhere can wave a magic wand and all will be ok. Far from it. And no, I wouldn’t trust the same bunch of gangsters in Ireland, Greece, Germany, anywhere, to run the financial institutions, pension funds, etc. Which is precisely why they need indeed to be nationalized and thouroughly regulated. But you ask how will we fund all this, that and the other? The choice is actually quite simple, we can either not fund it and subject ourselves to eternal serfcom imposed through EU dictated austerity etc, or, we can be creative, couple debt payment to economic growth, and slowly but surely pull ourselves, Irish, Greek, Italian, whoever we are, out of the mess we are in. At the moment, through bailouts etc. we are made believe we are thrown a rope to pull us out. What we are really being thrown is a rope with a noose at the end of it…
Why do you think Spain is so set against accepting a bank bailout, while the central powers in Europe are so set on them accepting one? Because both know that if Spain does indeed accept, it is another large chunk of now unaccounted for bank debt passed on to 60,000,000 taxpayers who will pay dearly for it, and so will their children, and theirs? Is that what you want?
why not include INDEP GREEKS, KKE, CHRYSI AVGI? an ecumenical gov seems to me a more logical way then it needs real consensus to challenge these problems. Furthermore, voters and opinion poll respondents show very clearly what they do think of PASOK. Unless you campaign to you it fets you best – stick to old schemes and incapable politicians who brought the country to this point.
Everybody is stuck to his/hers own fears but this does not mean that this is the universal truth or that the person is right and the rest is wrong.
I write this focusing on the principle of the discussion and not as a Chrysi Avgi, KKE, Indepent Greeks, Syriza or what-ever party voter.
I still do not make any sense out of it except a non-stop self-rightous talking. sorry, I feel unable to go into details of endless monologues where everyone and everything are thrown in one top and the best rabbit pops up. blue rabbit now, green rabit tomorrow, purple the day after.
It is the voice of unadulterated, raw fear that speaks. The comfort zone is gone, and panic strikes. Ann, now and again it’s good to step out of the comfort, in fact it’s very much needed. And if you don’t do it yourself, out of your own free will, life has a habbit of kicking you out of it at the most inconvenient and unexpected times, like now. Sit down, take a deep breath, and see what there is to see instead of what you are being told to see. Put away the “Daily Mail” and “Bilt”, go out into the streets and smell that new era over the horizon. It really isn’t all that bad, and it’s made out to be far worse than it is.
By the way, tell us, why does the offer for your factory have to come from a foreigner?
You do not need to read any blog at all, Ann, epsecially not KTG. Unless you’re here just to post your reactionary comments in an endless monologue.
BTW: Greece had never a presidential system.
You’re really a nuissance, Ann. Stop blaming the messenger, (here, the blogger ktg) or else move on to troll another website, please (I recommend https://greekleftreview.wordpress.com, you’ll hate them). I guess I speak for the other regular readers here, too, when I say that your regular attacks on ktg are unwarranted and annoying. I would totally understand if she stopped publishing your comments. Tolerance has its limits.
oh, that’s a troll? lol
it’s tiring, isn’t it?
Yeah, it’zzz zzzz zzzz…
I think Ann is just trying to say that Greece is difficult to govern. Like Herding Cats…
But, if I may take one of the best Greek songs and singers (Miliokas) who was heads and shoulders above the rest with his wisdom.
If Greece can get back to it’s roots (this song) then maybe Greece will suceed again.
Mr. Miliokas, take it away……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gIuo_W9e3M
It’s over! No need to waste time and write down comments!
Troll:
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
Feeding the Trolls:
Just as bad as trolling is “Feeding the Trolls”. This is when people say stuff that they know will prompt someone to respond with a trolled reply and/or replying to comments that are blatantly from a troll. This is especially true when a troll first makes his comment/reply, and (usually many) people respond, either trying to correct the troll, or express anger at the statement. At that point, the trolling was successful and has been fed. When encouraged by success and feeding, trolls often return.
Read more about Why people troll here
Gray, So, if someone doesn’t agree with the Greeks view on things, does that make them a troll?
I think Ann is asking the hard questions that many Greeks fail to ask. And besides, calling someone another person a troll is just a way to stifle free speech. What makes Ann or anyone else’s comments less of value? Unless KTG put out some groundrules on what can be posted, then Ann’s comments are no more a troll than yours, mine or even this Moe Howard character nonsensical comments, but as long as people don’t use profanity and are not attacking anyone, is that not what democracy is all about?
I’ll take the lead to try to be politically correct on this blog. Greeks are not at fault, it’s all the foreigners fault.
Ok, did I succeed, am I to be congratulated and told good job, as you tow the party line now. No dissent allowed on KTG??
Ann had been banned already twice from this blog in the past because of her comments that a) directly insulted the KTG-blog and b) non-stop mixing accurate and inccacurate facts in a manner that really kills me (as comments here need to be moderated). Not that she was not kept sending comments (in spam section) or long e-mails. I decided to give her a third chance – my mistake. Then it ended up in a third and permanent ban – plus all her latest comments were deleted.
If you follow the comments posted on KTG, you will read many different opinions and a lots disagreement. Occationally also Greece offending comments. So the problem is not if one is pro or contra Greece, the problem is the pure trolling.
Ok, my apologies. I did not know the extent of it.
So, is it safe to say that you warn people before they are banned as I wouldn’t like to wonder if something I will write would be considered trolling even if done unwillingly as disagreement.
try me lol
A suggestion regarding deleting comments. Wouldn’t it be better to preserve a ‘placeholder comment’, stating e.g. “comment by XYZZY deleted / KTG”? Otherwise you might render the comment sections annoyingly hard, if not impossible to interpret/comprehend.
hm… after all it doesn’t matter, I think. It were 17 comments. most of them unanswered.
Blue, I don’t agree with the “Greek” (or ktg’s) view very often, and to make things worse, I’m German! But this isn’t about a disagreement on politics or something. The issue is how to voice your opinion. It’s on thing to say “I think you got that wrong, and that this really is blahblahblah” and it’s something different to go this way: “You’re a total idiot for not understand that blahblahblah”. I hope you see the difference. Ktg provides a great service3 for her readers, by rounding up the news on Greece and for providing a space for discussion. For free! She deserves some basic respect for that, and not to be personally attacked if she states her opinion, based on the facts she reported.
And, again, I disagree with ktg quite often, but I understand that her point of view as a Greek necessarily differs from mine, and that there are several different ways to see the same developments. That doesn’t mean that one side is stupid or uninformed, just that the perspective is another one. Ok?
WHAT???? You’re GERMAN???? O-M-G!!!
btw: it gets on my nerves that somebody keeps posting ‘your ideas and opinions are wrong, you do not mention this or that” while the same person is permanently hanging around here. If THIS is not a troll, I wouldn’t know who is…
“You’re GERMAN????”
Ja. But it’s not as if I had a choice. I blame the stork!
😀
blame a mean Greek stork :p
ps. of course, I knew you were German