Posted by keeptalkinggreece in Politics
10:35 pm Nothing new. Live blogging is over… unless there would be some breakingthrough, of course.
07:45 pm Nothing new comes out – KTG is taking a shot/medium’long break, unless extraordinary developments happen….
07:15 pm Nothing new from the Greek front -[ Why do I have the feeling Samaras might ... "slip away" form the coalition gov't?] Greek media claim, some 20 Samaras’ MPs oppose the coalition. Hm….
06:51 pm EU Commissioner Olli Rehn: “We must have written commitments” [Or else...??? Forbid Greece to establish a new gov't???]
06:41 pm Papandreou invited also ex-FM Dora Bakoyanni (4 seats) to join the gov’t. Yesterday Papandreou invited also far-right Karatzeferis (LAOS 11 seats) and offered him a place in the parliament but Karatzaferis refused. Rumors have it , Pap offered Karatz either the ministry of Justice or the office of “Alternate PM”. I bet it was the second option…
06:20 pmSamaras issued a statement about the Eurogroup commitment paper, saying “Why should I sign the paper, I gave my commitment verbally”. So there seems to be an issue about it ….
06:18 pm Panagiotios Roumeliotis will visit Papandreou soon. Roumeliotis is Greece’s repr at IMF. Officially he will brief Papandreou on “the views on the other side of the Atlantic.” However Roumeliotis’ name was discussed as PM-candidate last night.
06:14 pm At the next tone, the Prime Mininster will be….
06:02 pm Athens Stock Exchange closed at +2.44%, the General Index at 779.63 units.
I think Greeks should light a candle to Berlusconi for ‘making the difference’ today.
Felicita = Happiness Video
05:57 pm Pap-Sam talks blocked again on Commitment paper to Eurogroup? FinMin Venizelos has reportedly said, the paper must be submitted tonight. However Samaras seeks to clarify what he is asked to sign. ”If the paper is on the outcome document of the OCt 26/27 Summit, there is no rpoblem. But if this is a written commitment that I sign to comply with all policies deemed necessary to implement this agreement, there is a problem because you can not commit to something you do not know” a ND source told economic news portal Capital.gr
05:30 pm Gov’t officials estimate there will be ‘developments’ during the day. Some minister shave submitted their resignations. Papandreou-Samars in continues contact (state NET TV).
05:27 pm All quite in Athens front [ I'm slowly falling asleep in front of my pc. Neither my wonderful white-bread & milk-chocolate sandwich helped me... ].
04:53 pm Karolos Papoulias left the Presidents’ Mansion – I assume he got bored awaiting the new gov’t announcement…
Time for refreshing exercise….
04:32 pm Also Greek news portals report that Pap-Sam agreed on Papademos and he agreed with them too. Now they negotiate on the written commitments to Eurogroup ( see 04:25 pm) [zzzz....]
04:30 pm All journalists show Lucas Papademos as new PM (state NET TV)
04:25 pm The Eurogroup is awaiting Gree’ce written commitments on the Oct 26th-agreement. According to news portal Zougla.gr, the papaer must contain the signatures of Papandreou, Samaras, Provopoulos (Bank of Greece), new PM and new Finance Minister.
04:22 pm No new Government yet! It looks as if they can’t decide on the PM’s name.
Keep Cool & Keep Checking KTG for Updates (I think, they all went for lunch or something…)
02:39 pm Government spokesman said Papandreou did not asked the minister’s resignation during the Cabinet meeting but told them to have them ready for when the time comes.
Papandreou told Ministers “Solution to come soon. Negotiations continue.” (Mega TV)
02:25 pm Cabinet meeting concluded - Papandreou allegedly asked the resignation of the ministers. Announcement of the new government… just a matter of time?
Nobody knows where Samaras went….
01:59:02 pm Kaklamanis told state NET TV reporter there was no agreement on the person of the new PM.
o1:59 pm Samaras rushed out of ND headquarters, go in his car and left to an unknown direction …. #suspense
01:36 pm State NET TV reporter was quoting PASOK sources ‘no agreement on PM’s name’.
01:35 pm Papandreou returned to Cabinet meeting – He has a meeting now with ex Parliament speaking A. Kaklamanis. Everybody wonders…#weird
01:29 pm Cabinet meeting started at 1:22 – three minutes later Papandreou interrupted it and went to his office to speak on the phone
01:00 pm Cabinet meeting to start … soon. Ministers have taken place. Papandreou still in his office . What a thriller…
12:47 pm Greece sold €1.3 billion of 26-week treasury bills at an auction, according to the Greek Public Debt Management Agency. The yield was marginally higher at 4.89% against 2.86% a month ago. The initial amount of €1 billion was covered 2.91 times, while the amount includes a 30% non-competitive tranche. (source: capital.gr)
12:27 pm Athens Stock Exchange on the rise +2.01% – Do stock markets have better insider information?
12:23 pm Government sources deny Papandreou had a meeting with Papademos this morning
Papademos’ horoscope:
“A lot of calls could come your way today. Some involve people who live far away, some are from friends with heavy emotional difficulties, and one could come from a romantic partner with whom you’re very anxious to get together. You might hop in the car to meet this person somewhere familiar in your community. Don’t wear your voice out talking on the phone!” (from horoscope.com)
12:15 pm Negotiation problems? Stalemate? Resignation? Papandreou’s horoscope for today:
“Some bad experiences regarding career, family, travel, or education could have a friend, colleague, or love partner in an explosive mood today. This person could be unpredictable now – happy one minute and in the depths of gloom the next. Don’t try to give advice or cheer up him or her. It will only result in anger. Stay out of the way and let your friend work through it”
…. and for tomorrow:
“You might be in a whirlwind today, and there will be information buzzing around asking you to do this and go there. You’re the one most perfectly suited to deal with the tone of the day. Stay lively and upbeat. Don’t get stuck on any one thing. Keep the energy moving. The answer will be right there waiting for you.” (hm….)
12:09 pm Cabinet meeting to start soon. State TV NET reporters covering PASOK and NEa Dimokratia say, “no consensus on PM’s name yet”!
11:59 am Newspaper Proto Thema online reports that Papandreou is pushing Samaras to change his rigid position on the elections time. PM’s sources say, “the new government must be strong and be able to sign and implement agreements with its lenders.”
11:42 am On Monday, former Vice President of the European Development Bank, Panagiotis Gennimatas lashed against Loukas Papademos. Gennimatas said that the candidate Prime Minister must go through an investigative committee to explain the role of the Bank of Greece, “when over a decade and in full agreement with governments he was supplying false information to the European institutions, so that Greece could enter the monetary union (Eurozone). ( Zougla fm)
PS LucasPapademos joined the Bank of Greece in 1985 as Chief Economist, rising to Deputy Governor in 1993 and Governor in 1994. During his time as Governor of the national bank, Mr Papademos was involved in Greece’s transition from the drachma to the euro as its national currency (more on Papademos HERE )
11:36 am The Cabinet will meet at 12 o’ clock (High Noon…) If the new government won’t be announced before, it will be …after, Greek media speculate. Last night, Justice Minister Haris Kastanidis told a TV talk show, that Papandreou Cabinet will evaluate what he has agreed with Samaras.
11:20 am No new government has been announced yet. Greek media Shortly after 10.00 am on Tuesday morning there was a meeting between George Papandreou and Lucas Papademos. The former VP of ECB seems to have return as the alleged prime minister in the new Greek government. Last night Roumeliotis and Dimamantouros were excluded.Panagiotis Roumeliotis and Diamandouros.
12:13 pm Negotiation problems ? Stalemate? Papandreou’s horoscope for today:
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tagged: antonis samaras, George Papandreou, Greece, live blogging in English, new government, November 8 2011
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A humble question: Will Pasok and Nea Demokratia ever co-operate?
Even in a coalition government they still have different politics.
One of them will straighten up and the other will lower taxes.
Combine that to a golden medium road.
Or is everyone just watching their chairs right now?
Even a minister could end up losing his job!
//Ulf W
Ι wonder too if PAsok-ND will manage to agree on a transition gov’t after all. In fact, they have to.
“no consensus on PM’s name yet”!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU&ob=av3e
hahaha
I am embarassed to say I am Greek sometimes here in the USA. I hear all the time how lazy we are and such, but we are not. I also think many of my fellow Greeks in Greece have lost touch with reality though. If you want to know what Greek Americans and others in Diaspora think and want to help, start with this article from the Atlantic. Stephanos Manos was the savior to start in 1992 but we Greeks were too stupid to listen and now it’s too late. Papandreou was the only one who understood our issues, and now again it will be too late.
the Atlantic article from today:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/11/the-only-leader-who-understood-greeces-real-problem-is-resigning/248018/
oh, dear….
What an ugly show of “democracy”. Just take a look to the ABOLISHED “hoodie”-law that Pasok just forgot to abolish and you’ll see that they’ve worked together all the time.
I mean, SERIOUSLY? ND were the ones who MADE UP numbers in order to make Greece look “the sh*t” while it was “a piece of sh*t” and after, PASOK came and tried to fix these problems by making the middle class pay all the mess, by lowering his head to every bank…
And THOSE two bastards, who have only been telling LIES will be the ones deciding on Greece’s future?
Gotta start packing bags.
“What a thriller…”? It is as much a thriller as looking at grass growing. Hoooooooooowwwwwwwww sssssssssssssllllllloooooooowwwwwwwww caaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnn theyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy goooooooooooooooo *sleep*
Let’s hope Greece will never experience a militairy attack again, because it will be occupied, robbed empty, liberated and done fighting among the ‘leaders’ way before there is a coordinated respons… Oeps, that happened before…
Loukanikos for Prez!!!
[...] Liveblogi Kreikan hallitusneuvotteluista [...]
Thank You for linking to a well written article.
Who ever it will be, “He, the chosen one”, the possible positive impact of the change (sign of decisiveness, chance and ‘way forward’) is lost by now. We fall asleep. The foreign politicians are getting angry, their voters are well done with Greece. Oh, and the cursed markets? They just see more opportunities to make big bucks.
Juncker talked about the Greek political class having, months to late, made the decision to change their ways… Dream on Monsieur Junker and IF you would retire in December, enjoy your Big Fat pension at your tender age of 56!
thnak God Berlusconi makes the difference today lol
OMG! “there is a problem because you can not commit to something you do not know”” After three(?) days of talks the ND still does not know what the October 26/27 accords are all about?! You must be kiddin’ me!
I have a proposal: Let’s do it the old fashioned Catholic way. Put those toddlers in the Parliament. Together with the other 298. Lock all the doors and don’t let them out again before they have a new Pope. Black smoke is No-Pope, white smoke is Pope. They can get water and bread. And that’s it. We will go on with our lives for a while. And will have a look at the roof of the Bouli in the evening for the smoke.
yes, yes, the white smoke.
I wonder why we have to stick on a live blogging. who cares on a news alert after all? #exhausted
Because it is… fun? Or masochistic…
About Sam: He should ask himself why they are demanding those 5 signatures under a letter with the promise to implement the October 26/27 accords. Does he still not know that he made himself a total pariah in Europe? And nobody will ever believe him again on his word alone? Yes, it is a total insult to the political class of Greece. But they have worked hard enough to earn that ‘honor’.
So, beat’m or swallow it. And wake up to reality at last. Please!!!
Sorry, should be “beat it”… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdxUFDoQe0
and Thriller …. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V90AmXnguw
Even the “European” counterparts don’t know the details before January and because of this it was already blackmail to ask for the referendum on 4th of December and at this point nobody said anything about Drachma/Euro.
There is also no legal way to force Greece out of the Eurozone. There’s only a possibility to get kicked out of EU (temporarily) if some strange things happen like f.i. a dictatorship.
But maybe they just want to switch from Euro to Drachma this weekend and the rest is just a show to let the banks work quiet.
Signed offline at 5:00 pm and back now 8:00 pm to find the commentary still running – must thank you for keeping us updated …
I saw this difficulty with the signatures also , but from a different perspective – Pap. is being asked to sign a document he offered a referendum over . After withdrawing the referendum , there was a 180 seat majority offered instead. We have not had that vote and he is expected to sign already in agreement. Should vote first then sign, at least …
the problem is the signature of Samaras not of Papandreou
Yep – I understand that , but still . Samaras made clear however that he did not want to sign off the next legislature of four years in advance, and maybe this is what is being asked. Should be voted first in my humble opinion – without that agreement there is no unity government . Have to hand it to the politicians that they are doing very well at keeping a closed hand and options open re. EU so far. I hope they maintain the ability to keep that independence – anything other would be a direct infringement on Greek sovereignty in my view – since when does a country do what finance expects (no matter if it is EU finance or a hedge fund) ? Normally it is the other way round and the personal benefits are pulled in discreetly along the way. Now we have it the other way round – those that do not fall into line are expelled. Given a choice between sovereignty and finance, the first is by far the most important. Who is to say how Greece or any EU country would have been without the Euro – not necessarily worse off.
Where will Berlusconi live then he gets elected to govern Greece? May be the best will be Crete so that some very old people can help solve the language problem or even better would be to put the capitol somethere into Calabria – megali idea or was that Ndraghetta?
Very sophisticated articles and blog posts are being published every day about technical solutions to the Greek and European debt problem. They range from Eurobonds to EFSF-leveraging to Modest Proposals, etc. etc. There are undoubtedly brilliant minds at work.
Here is an appeal to all those brilliant minds: the Greek debt is not going to go away regardless how smart the technical solutions are. On the contrary, the foreign debt of Greece is going to rise going forward; it cannot decline (unless the discussed haircut comes through but even that will be but a drop on a hot stone). So why devote so much brainpower to something which has no near-term solution instead of applying it to specific proposals as to how the Greek economy could become strong? The stronger the Greek economy becomes, the greater the likelihood that more Greek debt can eventually be repaid (or rather: refinanced in capital markets).
The appeal is: come up with proposals how the Greek economy can be transformed into a value-generating, competitive market economy, and grow! One such proposal is here (http://klauskastner.blogspot.com/2011/09/endgame-for-greece.html). Come up with many more!
One could argue that no growth plans for the economy can be implemented before the debt problem is solved. True. But keep it simple!
My suggestion: commit to the holders of Greece’s sovereign debt that, say, 10% of government expenditures will be allocated to interest payments over the next 10 years. And then let financial engineers work out combinations of amounts/tenors/interest which can be supported by that amount of interest payments.
Growth is the answer to most debt problems!
Agree with most of it. Just the last “Growth is the answer to most debt problems!”. Well that’s a bit of a problem. See, rumour has it, we have done that and got the bloody t-shirt. And on that t-shirt it says: Minus Growth/Humongous Debt.
Greece had the last 10 years or so the highest growth rate of the Euro Zone. So that in itself is not the solution. I agree that without growth there IS no solution. But what you are proposing is identical to what Samaras is calling for without mentioning the other condition that has to be met: restructuring of the whole Greek State. Because without that we will be back at the same junction 10 years from now.
Antonis, can you tell me the link or source to the “Greece had the the last 10 years or so the highest growth rate in the Euro Zone”?
And preferably a non-Greek source, as you know what they say about, “Lies, Damn lies, and Greek statistics”, so a European link would be best because I’m very skeptical about that claim.
Something like these? http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do;jsessionid=9ea7974b30dd8549af6fd90a4215b5a4bd09638f55ac.e34SbxiPb3uSb40Lb34LaxqRb30Ne0?tab=table&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tsieb020
It is not as absolute as I stated. But untill 2009 Greece was always in the top, these figures of Eurostat show.
Yes, good link, but I’d say they were more in the middle of the EU for growth, as there were quite a few countries above them, but also quite a few below, so maybe I’d settle for middle-high ranking for growth, but of course I guess who cares at this point. Thank you for the link, it’s a very nice site also.