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Dijsselbloem: “You just killed Troika” – Varoufakis “WOW!” (video, pics)

The joint press conference was concluding, when Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis droped a last bombshell.  “…and with this if you want – and according to European Parliament – flimsily-constructed committee we have no aim to cooperate. Thank you.” Varoufakis was referring to the famous Troika, the country’s official creditors consisting of the European Union, the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank..

After concluding with a “Thank you” Varoufakis gives the word to Eurogroup Chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who wants to hear the translation first. Then he takes off the ear phones, he stands up and sets to leave. An enforced-looking shaking of hands delays the  departure of the Dutch FinMin.

Dijsselbloem quickly whispers something to Varoufakis’ ear, he briefly replies back and the Eurogroup chief leaves the press conference hall as soon as it was possible.

Video: the Awkward Greek-Eurogroup Moment

embedded by Embedded Video

YouTube Direkt

The whole afternoon, Greek and international media were trying to find out “What the hell did they two men said to each other!?”

Private Mega TV reported short before 9 pm on Friday.

Eurogroup chief whispered to Greek FinMin’s  ear “You just killed the Troika” and that Varoufakis replied with a simple “WOW!”

 

Dijsselbloem: Whisper…whisper…

Varoufakis: Whisper….

 

Dijsselbloom slides his hand away

Back remains Varoufakis with one palm open and the left hand stuck in his pocket – relaxed Greek style

The two men talk for a couple of minutes with lips hidden from the cameras.

Dijsselbloem leaves without turning back to watch his interlocutor.

I don’t quite understand why Dijsselbloem is sour. I’m sure that Varoufakis told him the same things when they had their 2-hour face-to-face talks.

Unless they were talking about Gouda and Feta and the Greek FinMin surprised him when he said at the press conference, that the Greek government will not negotiate with the Troika.

Und furthermore, why is he offended? He is chief of the Eurogroup, he does not represent the Troika…

Most probably he was expecting a Yes-Man behavior like in the past with HOHOHO-jocker Jean-Claude Juncker, when he was Eurogroup head.

juncker venizelos

Juncker – FinMin Venizelos

Juncker

Juncker – Spanish FinMin

 

*** We still need to find out if the report conducted by the European Parliament on the Troika  – in 2012, I think – indeed described it as “flimsily-constructed.”

PS I have to stress that no matter what the consequences, many Greeks – but also foreigners – cheered Varoufakis for rejecting the Troika after 5 years of humiliations, 5 years of seing our government officials saying YES and AMEN to all Troika’s dictates.

 

 

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102 comments

  1. I love this stuff, I also was smiling at Protothema’s news. 🙂

    How about writing about the president of parliament, Zoi? Isn’t she able now to browse all the locked cases?

    http://agonaskritis.gr/%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%AF-%CE%B5%CF%80%CE%B9%CE%BB%CE%AD%CF%87%CE%B8%CE%B7%CE%BA%CE%B5-%CE%B7-%CE%B6%CF%89%CE%AE-%CE%BA%CF%89%CE%BD%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BB/

  2. keeptalkinggreece

    who is Zoi? hm???

  3. The EU does not understand the principles of a democratic country (what’s new).
    The ECB did not make an appointment with the country Greece, they made an appointment with the old government of Greece.

    Well hello, there is now a new government in Greece! And the new government can change old legislation and can democratically change appointments made by the old government !

    Else there would be no new legislation sins the first government of Greece !

  4. Zoe Constantopoulou or Konstantopoulou
    is a lawyer, a syriza mp that became the president of the greek parliament.
    before syriza became to power she was one of the two mps that was actively against all the cases of corruption. She repeatedly received threats against her life, and was ridiculed and verbally attacked by mp’s from opposing parties. so now that syriza is in power, she was alocated to become the president of the parliament, monitoring all these cases, and having official authority over all these mp’s who have been attacking her. http://www.thepressproject.net/article/71792/Konstantopoulou-Syriza-will-bring-accountability-to-public-life

  5. a yes. let her first be officially Parliament speaker. she is not yet.

  6. JD got offended because he’s a Bankster-minion. His whole future career depends on how this turns out and Varoufakis doesn’t give a shit about his career, because he already has one as a scientist. He only cares about his country.

  7. Dijsselbloem looks sour because he knows what the public statement means. It means that divide between the new Greek government is too wide to bridge, that as a consequence Greece will be out of funds by the end of February and it will default as a result.

  8. The 6th of February she will be. 😉 Can’t hardly wait for that.

  9. And please BAN immigration from the EU. During the summer there are tones of Germans, Swedes and Irish working in Greek hotels. We have millions of unemployed and we need strict quotas on EU immigration. Once the economy recovers (God help) then we can allow some certain number of newcomers. EU needs to understand that this country is not a soft touch anymore.

  10. oooor, maybe he said “need to pee, where’s the loo?” and Varoufakis said “straight and left”

  11. no, Varf said “no diapers? WOW!”

  12. Come on guys the debt is increasing under the Troika plan,it’s gone from 124% to 180%,it is obvious to me that this plan is not working.

  13. You are retarded arent you?
    Ever heard of Schengen Area?
    By your logic those thousands of Greeks (and by extend every European civilian) working in other European countries shouldnt get employed anymore and return to their homeland.
    What a genious plan!

  14. it depends on what you think the plan was;)

  15. So what? Britain and France are against free labour movement. Are they idiots? Lepen is wining in France and this will mean a stop of Schengen. So simple. The people demand a return to national democracies. Do you respect the voice of the people?

    “By your logic those thousands of Greeks (and by extend every European civilian) working in other European countries shouldnt get employed anymore and return to their homeland.”

    Exactly… restricting newcomers means round up all immigrants and send them back! Common sense speaking?

  16. Greek want die ? Let them die.

  17. The EUParl report is here.
    #56 sounds a lot like “flimsily constructed” 😉

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A7-2014-0149+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

  18. The plan is to make all the poor people slaves to the corporations and to control them all with fear and propoganda. Not just greece but the whole world

  19. and how many Greeks are in the UK taking British jobs,it works both ways ,Posso Malakas einai styn Ellada

  20. And that’s were you are wrong. There is an agreement in effect. If Greece is not keeping up its obligations, it is breach of contract. Whether the deal is made with a previous government doesn’t matter. At that moment in time they were the legal representatives chosen by the Greek people. An agreement can be renegotiated between the two parties, but not single handedly. If Greece wishes to do so it should bear the consequences, and they will be grave I can assure you. But then again it may be better to die standing than to live kneeling. I hope your new government realises this and has the courage to tell you so.

  21. It is your own Greek owners who hire them. Ask yourself why is that? Don’t blame the outside party, that’s always the easy way out. Consider your own mistakes first.

  22. In reaction on Kosko Kos 11:57pm

  23. Well I can think of a few hundred thousand Greeks working abroad returning home. Can you employ them?

  24. You are correct. Greek should have defaulted 6/7 years ago.

  25. Who are those people that want to go back to separate national states? Don’t project your view on all Europeans. And certainly this is not Syriza’s stance.

  26. Your Mr. Varoufakis doesn’t realise (how can he he is an academic) that the world is governed by money and not people. By the end of February Greece is out of money and then what. If Greece has shown itself not trustworthy (by complying to agreements made) it means no new loans from the ECB, IMF. And then who is going to pay the bills, pensions, civil servant wages etc..

    Or maybe your new government has made to many election promises it cannot keep up to. Stupid, stupid men.

    It will be the simple Greeks who will suffer and not Mr. Varoufakis or Mr. Tsipras. They have themselves covered.

  27. I think Varoufakis was referencing the enforcement of the memorandum. He was literally talking about the troika team that visits Athens and analyzes the implementation of the memorandum.

    I took Varoufakis to mean that the memorandum is dead and that the gov’t will not discuss it with that arm of the troika. But the gov’t has repeatedly said that it is interested in negotiations with… the troika.

    What he said is not very well understood by the translations from the Greek. Since he’s fluent in English, he might have been better off speaking such important words in both languages.

  28. Good one!

  29. lol. thanks.

  30. I…. don’t think so that he said it and it sounded as it did due to his language issues. he can express himself very well in Greek. His face expression showed also he was very well aware of what he was saying.

  31. Kick that lame finmin’s ass!!
    Good job Greece, anything that makes Dijsselbloem looks like the idiot he is bears my support!!

  32. So what?

    5 friends go out to book a “holiday”.. 1 of the friends wants to come but has not enough money to come with the other 4. The other 4 decide that there fifth friend needs to come as well. One for all, all for one. So they borrow him money and all 5 take off to “paradise” after a week in paradise, the 4 friends experience that their fifth is silent and hiding a bit. They all sit together and ask what’s going on? After talking for a long time, the fifth has to admit that he has more financial problems at home. Didn’t tell anyone he lost his job and that the last few years, he earned less money than he’d spend. In the end, he has to support his family (wife and kids) ofcourse.
    His four friends decide that the borrowed money for the holiday will be forgiven and forgotten. It was their present for him in these bad times. All decide to make a big plan to decrease his depts and to gain money in one or another way. They agree on a loaning to cover his families costs for 2 years and make a plan that their kids have to sell their Xboxes, Iphones, Playstations, GoPro’s and all luxury, in order to save money and pay-off depts ASAP.
    After two years, when the borrowed money needs to be payed back, their friend doesn’t show up. Instead his wife shows up and she is quit angry and arrogant. (Still in a certain panic, knowing money-trees don’t exist) The 4 friends do not have to think that they will receive any money back. Because their friends “forced” the family to sell all their luxury and to save money in any way possible to lose the pressure of their “red” account.

    Imagine yourself being one of those four, helping lads, which are being stabbed in the back with a very big knife….

    Don’t get me wrong, I hate the union and all their foolish plans. I hate the fact there is no democracy in their system. I hate the fact that diversity vanishes due to forced migration and I hate the fact that it is all about th money.

    In line with the things I hate, the thing I mostly hate is friends breaking there agreedments. With that, faith and trust are both lost. You can’t buy trust. You have got to proof it!

  33. Greece out of the Euro asap. This would be a big tax break on those in Europe who do manage to be economically viable.

  34. What about all the people in the other countries suffering for the loan to Greece? I think its an insult to the elderly in the Netherlands who now barely can get by due to the extra financial enforcement and changes done to make this happen.
    Agreed, it might be far from perfect for Greece but what was the alternative? They should pay the consequence for a lack of tax payments and now complain while the other countries have been paying taxes and do double now?
    Again, its an insult to those who suffer in other countries because of this. But I guess Greece doesn’t realise or care about that.

  35. This is very interesting (and I admit it, also fun) to watch. But only because I can watch this from a safe distance. If I would be a Greek citizen I would be really worried about what the government’s strategy is. Plan A – get a debt restructure on its terms – will not work, especially not with behaviour like this. I hope Plan B is not that Syriza thinks this is just a chicken game and the EU will rush to help shortly before a default happens. Of course Plan B could also be that Greece officially ends debt service and tries to cover all spending with regular tax revenue. This may work, but it’s a dangerous flirt with state bankruptcy and leaves the government little to no room for social benefits. Or does Plan B involve a big loan from Russia? The weeks to come will show…

  36. As much as I do believe that Greece should pay back the billions that other countries paid in order to avoid bankruptcy, I also believe that Brussel and Trojka are two of the most horrendous groups of people ever to have existed in Europe. And that the demands to Greece were unrealistic of which everyone (citizens at least) knew that it wasn’t going to work out… well except the politicians of course. Pretty much all the politicians in Brussel (and Trojka) just close their eyes pretending to be all-knowing little (you know what)

    Like I said, I do believe that Greece should pay back the billions. But not at the cost of all the citizens in Greece. And I’m glad that Greece now has a parliament with some serious kick-ass politicians who won’t be shoved under a carpet by those Trojka *you know what*.

    I’m from Holland, and I seriously enjoyed watching Varoufakis tear Dijsselbloem a new one. Our Minister of Financed (Dijsselbloem) is the epitome of a weak failure of a politician, and I’m happy to see him squirm like that. If his response is the same as the rest of Brussel’s response, perhaps we’re finally going to see that monstrosity they call Brussel tumble into a thousand pieces. Hardly any citizen in Europe asked for this kind of EU, and hardly any of us asked for a Euro. They should learn to listen to the citizens… the people who pay their salary and who fund their idiotic ideas.

  37. Interesting story.

    To the extend that the family had to give up their iphones, etc, I’d draw the same conclusion. i.e. agreements should be respected at all cost.

    However, what if they had to give up on their children’s education, health care, future and hope ?

    Would you be willing to consider that the mother may have the OBLIGATION to go against the agreement ?

  38. Looks like you don’t know what “Troika” stands for, kt! As the name implies, it has three members: The IMF, the ECB, and, SURPRISE, the eurogroup!

    So, Dijsselbloom does not represent the Troika? Hehehe, good one!
    😀

  39. A big loan from Russia would be very good from the point of view of Greece, the problem is Putin did not help too much to Cyprus. Greece must give something to Russia to get a big loan – and Greeks already decided about keeping the sanctions till September. And yes, Greece can be without money already in March.
    I am scared that there is no plan B. Let us not forget that from the new government probably only Dragasakis had some experience in being in the government.
    I would less care even about Grexit, introduction of drachma and potential devaluation. Not one country went bankrupt. I would be more anxious about Greek banks and how people will behave if European Central Bank stops feeding them.

  40. In principle you are right monmax.
    One thing though:
    “Official” talks that define the future of nations (not only Greece) must be held among elected representatives of those people whose lives are involved.
    All that Varoufakis said was that the new government will talk with real officials. They keep sending back bank clerks, little insignificant people that were appointed, not elected.
    One would even find it is unconstitutional to have a clerk from a foreign bank effectively running your government.
    Several members of our previous two governments should be prosecuted for surrendering control of the country against the Greek Constitution. If only one had the guts to apply the Law.
    Just because the muppets who preceded Syriza in office would swallow anything “sans voir” does it have to perpetuate into a national tradition?

  41. Greece is a country (stones, sand and water).
    Greek people live (for the most off them) in the land-part called Greece.
    On that territory called Greece, has been a state implemented, run by a government.

    The ECB, IMF had contracts with the old government.

    A company can also make contracts with banks, and when the company gets a new CEO, the company is still liable for that contract with the bank.

    Now Greece: The Greece old government, made deals/contracts with the ECB. That old government was chosen by the people.
    The new situation is that the state has a new democratic chosen government. This new government has made NO DEALS with the ECB. And the new government is not liable for contracts that the old government made !

    The ECB, made deals with the old government, as if the government were a company and could always kept liable. And that is non-sense.
    Because if that was true, then the laws and deals that the ever first government of Greece made, could never be changed by later governments.

    The ECB acted stupid, the should have made deals for the 4-year period of the old government.
    They did not, thinking they had the state of Greece in their pocket (quod non)
    The ECB did bad business, with long standing contracts, and now the ECB starts crying. And they only show their lack of understanding how democracy works (what’s new ?).

  42. Why does Greece not a) Exit the Euro b) repay its debts c) go its merry way like Nigeria, Somalia & so many other countries do. As an outsider from Australia looking in am not sure of the narrative which suggests that Greece & Europe are joined at the hip.

    Lets end this dance-macabre.Greece never did belong in the rich-Euro club. Its more aligned in its thinking & style to North African countries on its Southern flank.

  43. Excuse me, but not everyone in the UK is against free labour movement, infact its a small minority that is against it (think it was only around 10% of the voting public voted for eurosceptic parties in last european election). Those in the UK who have even the most basic intelligence realise the importance of a free labour market to our economy. Those who come from the EU and work hard and pay taxes, without using public services as much as locals, are putting huge piles of money into both the economy and the government coffers. Free movement has also allowed millions of brits to move freely throughout europe to find work. Hopefully i will be one to join them, as i am studying to be an astronomer. If free movement of labor wasnt allowed in europe i will struggle to find gainful employment in my chosen field. As it is now, i can be employed by any ESA site in europe without the need of permission.

    If you are worried about people from foreign countries taking your jobs, then look at why they are getting the jobs. More often than not, economic migrants will work their fingers to the bone. Instead of moaning about them taking your jobs, have a little think about trying to work as hard as them, and you might find it easier to find employment.

  44. “If they don’t want any more aid, we won’t force any upon them,” German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble said after the meeting. Dijsselbloem doesn’t have an official mandate from the Eurogroup for his reconnaissance trip to Athens – “but we have freedom of movement in Europe,” Schäuble joked. You can find that at http://www.dw.de/german-finance-minister-talks-tough-after-syriza-win/a-18222123

  45. You, as well as many other in the rest of Europe do not understand, is that you were double taxed by your governments in order to save the Greek (and the rest of the European) banks. As for me, a non bankster average Greek, I saw my income reduced 35% and got taxed 500% more. Dept is 180% of GDP, unemployment 26%, unemployment among young ages 50%. So much for your help to the “Greek people”.

  46. Marc: you are funny and trust me, we North Africans appreciate good sense of humour. But, I seriously doubt about how serious you are. Let me suggest you a visit here in North Africa asap. It might as well be very educational to you (at least).

  47. First see my comment on #3 where exactly the same is said.
    Secondly if you mean to do so (as an independent country) (meaning not paying back or single handedly changing the agreement)Greece shows itself not trustworthy and therefore should be expelled not only from the € but also EU. And again the simple Greek people will suffer the most.

    Your new government has made promises in pre-election time that your country will not be able to pay for. It is estimated that the promises amount up to 12 billion a year. This has to be paid somehow. How do they expect to do it? Your previous governments weren’t able to raise taxes more efficiently due to a flawed tax paying moral. That will not change overnight. And your apparent new friends the Russians will want to be paid back as well. (They don’t have the money either).

  48. As a Dutchman also I would like to say that Dijsselbloem is acting as chairman of the Euro group and not as our national FinMin. There is distinction.

  49. With Nigeria and Somalia you are very strongly exaggerating. Even in the worst scenario Greece – after one or two years of turmoil – will rather stay the richest country of the region of the Balkan Peninsula – if they do not make an extreme mistake. But coming to the level , let say , of Hungary, Poland can be possible. In fact, it is already near in purchasing parity term, not in nominal term – Greeks still earn nominally more, but have much higher prices and extreme unemployment.
    What is sad – already Czech Republic and Slovakia overtook Greece in real terms (what you can buy for your earnings / average income). This is a little bit terrifying – and showing that maybe devaluation would not be so bad. Czech Republic and Slovakia have also better perspectives – relatively small debt.
    Now I think it was a mistake that Greece did not leave euro 2009 or 2010. The prices would be lower, but the country would be competitive, and for lower salaries Greeks could buy more than today (in Greece, not abroad). And no 60 % unemployment for young people. Already economic growth would exist and maybe be quite strong.
    But Grexit now , after so many sacrifices, can be an extreme mistake. Because Greece would have two shocks – Troika therapy + devaluation next. So somehow I cannot agree with so hard and risky strategy of negotiation.

  50. PS. Czech Republic and Slovakia are about 5-8 % richer in purchasing power parity and about 15 % poorer nominally (in income counted in euro or usd). So 15 % devaluation would be enough… But of course, I think that they are better off and for sure have better perspectives – unemployment is not extreme and they do not have a crazy debt. And yes, twenty years ago they were much poorer – now I would not say it.
    The therapy of Troika did not work , but I really would wish that Greece avoids a double shock. One shock was enough. Greek prices are now only 15 % too high and I suppose that economic growth can slowly appear. If the too risky strategy produces a Grexit and a bank run – it will be very sad for this beautiful country. And still it is a country with more resources than Slovakia or Czech Republic (let us say islands, tourism), so it should be slightly richer.

  51. In order to save Greece for a while it needs some € 50 billion. Russia will not lend it. It has some € 450 billion in reserve for its own economy which is under stress due to the sanctions. They will not help. Nor will China. There is two possibilities a) renegotiate or b) default. For the Greek people I hope their government chooses option a. For me as a inhabitant of a lending nation I hope it will be b), simply because then I know my extra tax spending on helping Greece will stop in a few years.

  52. Funny idea of ‘democracy’… I have some news for you: Deals made by a government with whomever are not ‘private deals’ by members of that government but state deals. They act on behalf of the state they represent. Of course any obligations resulting of such deals will have to be fulfilled by other representatives as well.

  53. The EU lacks two vitally important ingredients…(i) leadership and (ii) vision. Germany lacks both skills! The problems are not so insurmountable they cannot be dealt with effectively! It’s just that these problems are confined inside the nordic problem-solving arena, where only nordic ideas are presented and where only nordic solutions are sought.

    How can it be right, Greek debt increases under Troika hegemony instruction. Normal people view this like clear attempt to enslave the Greeks for years to come. To suppress oppress and hegemonize the Greek state into subjugation.

    Germany Holland Austria and Finland would then be in good position to buy up all the Greek Islands and populate them with Hermans, Jans, Adolphs and Paavo’s.

    Honestly, these countries showed the rest of us Europeans, the ugly face of Nordic ideology.

  54. To balance out the above comments, let me copy/paste the text of a mail which I received today from a Greek friend whom I have known for over 30 years. I might add that he has always been a real Greek patriot. He calls me pen-pal because he knows that I have been in frequent contact with Yanis Varoufakis of late.

    Quote
    “Barufa” in colloquial Greek means bull shit. So, your pen pal Mr. Varoufakis better be called Mr. Baroufakis. The only thing I have to say is the man is a shame to the greek race! I mean, if you want to start an effective negotiation with an important person of your lenders you don’t appear with a colored shirt tucked out of your trousers, a “blasee” conceited attitude and winking all around you with a broad smile on your face.
    I don’t know – God help Greece…
    Unquote

  55. Who is more trustworthy, a debtor who takes on more debt knowing full well they can never repay it, or one who admits they cannot repay it and tries to work with their creditors to find a viable solution?

  56. Huge Podemos demo in Madrid and elsewhere in Spain. Following Syriza’s example.

    We in Ireland are on the way too. Tens of thousands on anti-austerity demos all over the country all day today, opposing latest Government plan to impose water taxes and privatise our water…

  57. To borrow from Varoufakis: “Wow!”

  58. Just a thought from a Dutchman. Wouldn’t it be nice if you paid for your own debts instead that it is me and my fellow Nordic countryman? Sure, it is not your fault (it was the previous governments of the past 40 years) but you voted them. Greece has well been living beyond its means (certainly between 2002 and 2008). Even the Olympics have been paid for by loans. Don’t you understand the meaning of loans? They are meant for to be paid back. And rest assured, I would be glad if Greece could pay back its debts, it costs me personally (and my fellow Nordic countrymen) less taxeuros.

  59. @Monma
    Mmmm, I rather stand up and live !

    Greece ?? Is a country made of water, stones and sand, how can water, stones and sand make up a contract with the ECB ?
    It seems that U do not understand the principles of a democracy.
    The new government is in what legal way (please show me the legislation !) committed to deals that the former government made ?

    The ECB fucked up, by making long period loans, knowing that the next government could chooses differently.

    If as U say,”legal representatives chosen by the Greek people”(concerning the deal) then it’s quit simple. If the representatives can make a deal, well then they can also break a deal !

    I think the best for the people of Greece is as that the government stops all there payments to the ECB. And put that money right in the economy of Greece.
    That’s a win for the Greek people, no more money to the ECB and no extra loans from the ECB.(the ECB has no money, they create it out of thin air)

  60. My dear Monmax, take a Ouzo and lighten up man 🙂

    First it is NO real money ! (google: fractional banking)
    In my opinion, the ECB made the contracts for those billions, because they knew that the Greek people were not able to pay back. So the goal of the ECB was: Greek people had to sell there assets, for marbles.

    Now the game for the ECB seems over and out.
    In this era it is not about making money, but now it is about people !

  61. @Frodo
    And if that were true (state deals) the state can make deals, well then also can the state BREAK deals ! 🙂 (common sense)

    Have an Ouzo 🙂

  62. We finally have politicians talking / negotiating. Till now “troikans” were coming for vacation. They didn’t even had to sign any papers..they were sending emails to direct Greek gov.
    Soon we will find out how much money EU has given to the bankers and people got 0!!gratz to Syriza and Y.Varoufakis

  63. The goal of the ECB was enabling Greece to pay their debts to French and German banks. As I have said earlier and will say again, money makes the world go round not people. It should but it doesn’t.
    Now that these banks are presumably out of the danger zone nobody cares what happens next. At least not the ones who decide about the money. They don’t care about simple Non tax paying Greek people nor do they care about law abiding tax paying Northern Europeans.

  64. Yes, and face the consequences of it, if they have the courage to.

  65. That you are taxed +500% doesn’t tell me that much. One of the many reasons of Greeces’ current problems is that the Greeks themselves have have a tendency of not paying their taxes. Of course I don’t know you in person, so do not take this comment personally, it is merely a generalisation.
    Also in general please be welcome to pay back all your debt and we will gladly leave you be.

  66. We will all be very happy when Greece will leave the Eu and the Euro.
    Then they can start working for their own money.

  67. @momax @city It might be more simple: if I borrow money from you because I can’t pay for my living myself anymore and one day I decide that I won’t pay you back because I don’t like the conditions anymore, how would you feel?
    The ECB that you rebel against is funded with tax money of all the citizens of the EU, there are people behind it that had to share (through taxes) part of their income to the people of Greece. That is how it works when you are in a united Europe. But to think that a new government is not bound to pay back money the state of Greece borrowed is a bit odd.
    What the discussion has been all the time and still should be is how to get Greece back on its it’s feet again. And that takes tough decisions. Not always to my likings too and I believe that things have been tough for the people of Greece and I really feel for them.
    I truly hope that the new government of Greece won’t drag us all again in a new crisis and destabilize the European economy.

  68. More like previous admin cooked the books for many years and didn’t bother collecting taxes from their corporate elite funders, let their banks run wild and when their ponzi scheme collapsed they passed the responsibility on to their citizens, this is financial war where the politicians and the generals never get wasted on the front, its the proletariat and the grunts that get wasted.
    The difference between an iPhone and a hedge fund.

  69. Because we are still separate nations, or I miss something?
    We have all separate economics and way of life, and we are together in Europe.
    There is nothing wrong with that.
    We can work together without the EU Brussels, big banks and corporations.
    The EU is a nondemocratic anti-European bureaucratic institution.
    We have to go back to the EEC

  70. All out of the EU, and back in the EEC.

  71. Totally right. And Spiegel says that without money from European Central Bank Greek banks can survive until 16 of February. I hope this is fear-mongering, but I would not be sure- Spiegel is not a party taking part in Greek electoral campaign.
    http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/griechenlands-banken-koennten-bald-notfallreserven-brauchen-a-1015996.html
    Even if Greece needed probably some devaluation and maybe even a default, it does not need a bank run and a danger of people losing all their savings.

  72. Germany definitely doesn’t want to be an exporter without the Euro and the EU. A country with a trade surplus at 7% of GDP is not long for this world without cover.

    If you don’t understand that Germany benefits more than anyone from the Euro, it’s time to stop talking.

  73. Actually, Dijssellboem might be upset because Varoufakis/Tsipras found the one mechanism that is the most likely to work: by dealing with the IMF, ECB and EU separately (and ending the Troika), Greece will now be able to play these 3 against each other. This was an incredible strategic decision because it will likely work while allowing Greece to remain in the EU. Why? Because the IMF is the most important of the three for the bailout and it is heavily influenced by the USA, who is by far its largest contributor. It’s not simply a matter of voting rights – it’s a matter of the very strong American influence in the IMF’s day-to-day operations. The US very much wants to see the euro survive (its collapse would hit the world economy very, very hard) and disagrees with the vindictiveness and hypocrisy of the Germans (for every foolish borrower, there is an even more foolish lender). Say whatever you want about the US, but when it comes to stabilizing a monetary crisis, they are by far the most effective and efficient because they take a pragmatic approach: “saving the patient is all that matters, not figuring out whether the patient brought the emergency upon himself or is an innocent victim”.

    This is the most bullish I’ve been on the survival of the euro in probably 6 years. Oh, and yes, I’m an economist.

  74. Thatcher said it best

    The problem with socialism is that at some point you run out of other people’s money…
    They should cut Greece off. Immediately screw them. Let them go back to the drachma. Let’s see who wants that piece of dung currency.

  75. @Agni
    With all due respect, U’re talking about contract-law between humans.
    A human does not change every 4 year her/his identity.

    This is about contract law between states, that is totally different, while every 4 years, a state has the possibility to change “her identity”.

    I do not rebel against anything. The joke is that the ECB creates money out of thin air () , the ECB took the debt of the German- and French banks, who were on the edge of going bankrupt.
    And now the people living in Europe are compulsory to work and with the money they earned, save the German and French banks.

  76. If the new Greek government is not bound by contracts made by former governments does that not mean also they are not in EU, Euro, United Nations, NATO etcetera anymore ? Or can they selectively break only the ones that they dont like ?

  77. Even though it will produce short term pain for both the Eurozone and for Greece… in the LONG term everyone will be better off if Greece leaves the Eurozone. Germany will no longer dictate how Greece is run, and Greece will be forced to make it on its own.

  78. pragmatic approach on the issue

  79. @expat
    [quote]does that not mean also they are not in EU, Euro, United Nations, NATO etcetera anymore ? Or can they selectively break only the ones that they dont like ?[/quote]

    Ofcourse ! (the EU is not nazi-germany)

  80. Expecting that Greece would ever pay back the contents of the begging bowl is an naive as believing it’s finances when it was allowed into the club.
    It still is and always will be third world, and cannot afford to be alongside the main players in the EU.
    It will have a lifetime of begging for survival.

  81. Hello KG, could u explain to me why u, in u’re wisdom decided to remove my u-tube link about creating money ?

  82. I understand why Dijsselbloem is so mad, The Netherlands gave a lot of money to Greece to bail them out and now Greece doesn’t want to pay us back? Come on, it’s the tax payers money that basically the Greek government has stolen from the Dutch tax payer and all the other countries where tax payers end up for the costs of a Greek government crisis. You can’t just say I’m not paying, this is the stuff of wars.

    Stopping Schengen verdrag and immigration is a stupid idea. A lot of money incoming in Greece is thanks to tourism, the very thing you eliminate when you stop free person travel in the EU. Also kick every foreigner out? So if the EU does the same and kicks all the Greek people back to greece then you are happy to still be in an economic downfall? The “THEY TOOK OUR JOBS” argument is retarded.

  83. keeptalkinggreece

    yes. it looked like an ad by a carpet company.

  84. keeptalkinggreece

    I think Dijsselbloem got mad because for one more time he did not understand what it was about (see: “template bail-out Cyprus).

  85. He don’t care about the Netherlands, he is only thinking about his career.

  86. The smugness of the new Greek government is incredible. Just look at Varoufakis’ self congratulatory smile. I sincerely hope (for the Greeks) that these guys know the stakes that they are playing with.

    What if the Troika answers fire with fire?

    Starting with stopping the inherent subsidy to Greek banks by lending at the average Euro Repo rate, instead of the underlying Greek spread – that would cause a meltdown of their financial system.

    Next would be to insist on the maintenance of the current (already watered down) loan terms and associated conditions, this seems to be a reasonable position to all but the Greeks.
    This would force either a climb-down from the Greek government or default. Such a default will shut Greece out of the international financing markets for years.

    I am yet to understand Syriza’s real message? Is it to roll back all structural reforms, continue spending more that Greece can afford, get the rest of Europe to continue bailing them out – to then insult their lenders and refuse to pay the money back?

    I am not German, but you have to have sympathy with Merkel on this one

  87. Vous trompez, un contrat conclu sous la contrainte est un contrat nul, dans un pays démocratique. En France par exemple c’est ainsi ! Je ne vois pas pourquoi les Grecs devraient continuer à honorer une escroquerie conclue par tous les parasites financiers sur leur dos 😉

    Je suis Parisienne, et j’espère que le nouveau gouvernement grec va continuer comme ça, pour faire respecter la souveraineté de leur pays (c’est une condition nécessaire à la garantie des Droits de l’Homme), donc la volonté du peuple qui vient de s’exprimer et qui dit “merde” à la troïka. Et qui a bien raison !!!! Affamer un peuple, l’empêcher de se soigner correctement, pousser plein de gens au suicide, ça a un nom ! Et il y a des coupables !

  88. Nope, it has probably to do that also KG censures the open knowing of the capitalist system !
    Bey bey !

  89. keeptalkinggreece

    sorry I have a problem with this text in French

  90. keeptalkinggreece

    same old trivial and not sharp arguments

  91. Yep, this is not just a Greece problem its a global problem. Debt is the weapon of choice of Europe/USA. Look at a global map of rates of debt and you’ll see its concentrated in the ‘developed’ nations. People are slowly waking up to the con. How can you have freedom when a child is born in debt? Endowed with that debt without choice and forced to repay it eternally because of ever accruing interest. That is the very definition of slavery.

  92. Substitute the words ‘bail-out’ with ‘take-over’ and you get a much more realistic view of the situation. The whole point is for private EU corporations to take control of the greek state institutions and exploit them to increase their profit. If you say this was to benefit Greece you are either incredibly niave or a corporate yes man.
    I am from Australia and I can tell you there is little sympathy for Germany on this issue here. Its a con, that uses intimidation to create fear to cause obedience.
    Fear is the weapon of tyrants. Bravo Greece.

  93. cheers to Melbourne 🙂

  94. Hi City,
    well, when a company changes its CEO the old contracts are still valid.
    You said “Greece?? Is a country made of water, stones and sand, how can water, stones and sand make up a contract with the ECB?”
    Greece is not only the name of a collection of stones, it’s also the name of a state (a complex construct of laws, institutions, citizens, territory, …). The representatives of a state can make contracts, where the state is one of the contracting partners. On the other hand the representatives are part of the state. It’s still the same state with the same contracts when the representatives change. That might sound odd and undemocratic to you, but that’s not challenged at all by experts in politics and foreign affairs.
    But there is a major difference between contracts of states and contracts of companies. When you have a contract with a company and they break it, you can sue them. Usually they will be forced by law to act according to the contract or to compensate you. If they don’t, the state authority will force them in one way or another.
    When a state breaks a contract with you, it’s not guaranteed that you find a court or similar institution which is authorized. If you find one and it rules in your favor but the state doesn’t pay there is no real international authority who could force the state.
    We see it all the time. The 2nd invasion of Iraq was illegal (the annexation of Krim as well) but there is no police who can prevent it, only some powerless UN-Soldiers.
    So Greece breaks valid contracts. That’s illegal but no one outside of Greece can do much about it. The other EU States will never use an army in this conflict, so the only options are sanctions. It’s possible to pressure someone with such sanctions, but it’s totally up to the sovereign country of greece and it’s government if they concede.
    That leads us to the question: If it’s illegal but possible to break the contracts, is it the right and morale thing to do? I think definitely yes! It’s obvious that the new government was explicitly elected to break these contracts. The democratic will of the people is worth more than a contract which strangles them to death and is in itself highly undemocratic. But I might be biased, because I like the ideology of the new government and I love the fact that finally the real offenders – the criminal greek elites – get under pressure.
    It will be expensive for my country (I’m German), but our representatives were both: stupid and cold hearted. We elected them (not me personally, but I will take responsibility for a democratic decision in my country even when I’m not happy with it) and now we have to take the consequences.
    Jakob

  95. I’m from Turkey, and i liked Yanis Varufakis ! he is very realist in my opinion. also your country not so good in Europa, i hope Turkey never enter to Europa !!!!

  96. tell the germans to pay greece everything they took-stole “that should cover everything greece loaned so far” then talk
    say what you want about greece fact is germany is the number 1 debt country in europe,usa in the world

    you dont want greece in europe…trust me the greek ppl never wanted to be in in the first place

    The real problem is not Greece’s debt. It is the Eurozone’s bailout conditions

  97. It appears to me that you are a little ‘green behind your ears’ please get your facts right. you like many others are thinking about yourself, others who have fought for there country think about their country not themselves. The EU is NOT a Democracy in anyway shape or form. And just for starters would you join any club whose Accounts have not been signed off (that means that they are a TRUE record of all transactions)
    for over 15 plus years. WHY WHY WHY,simple as they ,say just try and follow where all the money has gone!

  98. As a Greek, I don’t understand why someone would engage in conversation with City… It’s more than clear that he/she will bend the rules to his/her favour no matter what argument someone uses and then tell you to relax and have an ouzo.. The level of ignorance and just plain illogicality of some ppl is just astounding.

  99. I support people and Government of Greece.

  100. THIS is Zoe