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Absolute absurd! Greece’s creditors leaked proposals with €11bn measures

The five-page creditors’ proposals to Greece have been leaked to the press and it is all over the Greek and international internet. The proposals that bear the signature of the International Monetary Fund demand from austerity in form of VAT hikes, sweeping changes in to pensions system, including raising of the retirement age to 67, scrapping poverty allowance (EKAS) for the low-pensioners, higher contributions to main and supplementary pensions, 23% Value Added Tax in food, no V.A.T. returns from the islands, 100% tax in advance for legal entities, 28% corporate tax, social security contribution raises only in the employee’s share.

They rejected the Greek proposal for taxing e-gaming (VLTs) and revenues from 4G and 5G license. The Greek proposal was targeting 600 million euro revenues for 2015-2016.

Absolute absurd!

“A package of austerity worth 11 billion euro,” according to state broadcaster ERT.

The red crossings out show items which are being rejected by creditors, and the underlined red sections show the new proposals.

creditors Greece VAT

creditors Greece pensions

The Full 5-Page Creditors’ Proposal is here (pdf) in English as obtained by the Wall street Journal via Skai.gr

What mean Greeks see in these IMF’s proposals is that future investors fall soft with their future investments (e-gaming, 4G+5G licenses, etc) and further more will enjoy preferential tax treatment with 28% corporate tax.

Officially the IMF says that taxation of online-gaming and 4G & 5G licenses will “jeopardize growth.

Maybe PM Tsipras was right this morning claiming that “it is either they do no have interest on an agreement or they are backed by other interests.”

What do you mean “No”?

PS were these proposals exchanged per e-mail? Just asking…

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36 comments

  1. After this how can Tsipras nd Syriza keep trying to reach a deal with these liar sociopaths?
    No way out but to default, nationalize banking system, search for international partners not interested on the overthrow of the government, prepare exit from euro.
    Greeks must trust themselfes, the european people and other international partners. Not the “European family”+IMF of sociopath liars.

  2. Actually, from my reading the counter-proposal does not seem to represent a dramatic departure from the Greek government’s proposal. The latter already proposed to apply the 23% VAT rate to food, with exception for “basic food” and “catering/restaurants”. The counter-proposal replaces “basic food” with “unprocessed food” (making the agreement much more specific) and drops the “catering/restaurants” exception. The Greek government already proposed to increase the retirement age to 67 years by 2025; the counter-proposal is accelerating that to 2022 (making progressive changes between now and then), drops the exception for the completely vague “other special categories” workers, and even allows for retirement at 62 provided the person contributed to the pension fund (i.e., worked) for 40 years.

    I am not certain why Tsipras acts so surprised and creates a drama where one does not exist. He rushed his proposal the night before his meeting with creditors on Monday, so that it can be used as a basis for further negotiations. Good move! However, did he expect that his proposal will be accepted by the creditors with no changes whatsoever?

  3. I suggest that you take some reading classes, then.

  4. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    In 2022 Greece has to pay back 3 times the money than in 2021
    “Dropping” catering means “dropping” 40.000 jobs.
    It’s always the same scheme as it still aims to destroy the tourist sector, destroy family business so that TUI-Cook-bastards can buy in beds and slaves for nothing, also every EU official wants a house at the seaside as cheap as possible with bonus the former owner to clean his fat ass.

  5. 3bn is not a big difference. Read up on the countries that IMF have been involved in & look at those countries today – then u may get the pec…

  6. Tsipras should sign nothing further. We’re all behind him together with the people of many European countries. He’s given an exhausting battle for 5 months with officials who will accept nothing less than what THEY want. Even if they chose to default, it’s not the first time for Greece. Greeks will stand on their feet once again – they’re GREEKS!

  7. I understand, that decrease of Greek GDP was dramatic, but anyway, Greeks should understand, that there is no more space for debt cuts in EU, because Italy, Spain and Portugal will ask for equal handling. It simply can not happen, and therefore pension reform is the only way for Greeks how to stay in Eurozone. Sad? – Yes.

  8. I don’t see an improvement of the IMF proposal vs the Greek proposal. Let’s just agree and move on to fighting tax evasion and reducing bureaucracy. Enough time and effort lost.

  9. keeptalkinggreece

    what? are we part of negotiations team?

  10. MARYANN CATHOPOULIS

    I am even more convinced now that the primary goal of the institutions is to ensure NO DEAL is reached so as to cause political upheaval in Greece, for the purpose of having the Syriza government removed from office. Christine Lagarde is hitting the accelerator so as to look good in front of her IMF friends at be reelected as President of the IMF. ALL that she does and proposes is self serving: she has NO interest in was is right and good for the Greek people.

    I hope the Greek people understand what is really happening and support Mr. Tsipras who IS working for the good of the Greeks.

  11. MARYANN CATHOPOULIS

    Bravo!

  12. They should go back to the drawing board say “The impossible we can do tomorrow but miracles take a little longer”

  13. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    Sure, pl call Tsipraki to blackmail with “otherwise all tourist get banned from Greece” or so, who knows may be the chance to never see Greece again works just magic

  14. This is war on Greece and this war on the Greek people.
    They are going to destroy the Greek state and they are going to destroy the Greek society.

    Modern wars are financial wars.
    Wehrmacht is not needed anymore.

  15. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    Austerity in Greece 18%, in Spain 6%, in Portugal 6.6% and since then Italy and Spain were terrorized by troika?

  16. It simply can not happen, and therefore pension reform is the only way for Greeks how to stay in Eurozone.

    Why would Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and many others not get a debt cut? After all, they too were done majorly by “the institutions”, Before Ireland was saved, it’s debt stood at 6.2 billion. After being saved, it stands at nearly 80 billion and growing… About time those finance boys are put in their place and made eat their odious, worthless “debt”…
    Why is pension reform the only way? There is more than one way to skin a cat, and this particular cat needs some creative skinning to put long term social manners on it.
    After all the shit dished out, why would Greece want to stay in the Eurozone? With friends like this, who needs enemies?

  17. 1. Anybody of them needed debt haircut? (I am not sure, but I do not thik so, just loans) You want second one in 5 years.
    2. Greece pays 10% of GDP from budget to pension system. 5% budget deficit is already consideted unsustainable – you have a guaranteed black hole of 10% GDP just in this sigle budget item… and very large army, and big beurocracy…
    3. You are second largest fund receiver in EU and this is also unsustainable as there are other poorer countries – so you have to add other 5 billions to austerity counting.

  18. You fail to grasp that cutting debt is not something you would do for fun or optionally when it’s unsustainable. Greek debt haircut is not a matter of if it will happen but when and how; can be in cooperation with the creditors or one side haircut after a default and exit from the eurozone.

    Btw i felt a great disappointment reading that “anyway” of yours.
    “Hey, half young greeks are without job, but anyway”
    “Thousands of greeks have chosen to give up life and suicide, but anyway”
    “European and other NGOs have multiple times confirmed the humanitarian crisis in Greece, but anyway”

    Enjoy your conformism.

  19. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    Welcome in the land of the dead eyes
    Even mass-suicide of another 10.000 pensioners rejected: “We don’t trust you, they have to come here and kill themselves in Böäärlin(*) to proof the cuts”
    Greece needs the army to get the German reparations out of Kaltland and finish the Morgenthau-Plan
    (*)pronounce like vomit, ugly kraut-shitty city without sea

  20. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    With 200 Dollar-visa for every EU-citizen money would come, the rest who’s too stupid to ask kindly a fisherman to be let inside Greece can go for wurst to Mallorca

  21. Nonsenses, the total deficit is obviously unsustainable because nobody right in his mind would ask for a country deep in recession to run a surplus of more than 4% to cover the debt cost, that’s why everyone (including IMF) except the right political parties of EU talking about an unavoidable haircut.

    Let me remind you that the greek GDP fall 25% the last 5 years so OBVIOUSLY the cost not just of the pension system but for every public sector services increased as a percent of gdp.

    As for the army, let me inform you that Greece is possibly the only european country that its borders are disputed by another country, sure Greece could decrease the army supplies (bought from Germany and France mostly) but the EU should guarantee first the safety of its borders.

    As for the public sector, no it was never big, even before the crisis it was at the european average according to OECD data. Feel free to look the data yourself.

  22. The only good deaI for Greece is NO deaI –

  23. And you think Im the racist warmongerer???
    Youre funny.

  24. I am inclined to agree, sadly. The IMF will not be repaid for the first time in history and this will damage the operation and credibility of the Fund. Lagarde will be responsible for this.

    The Greek banks will likely set capital controls; Greece may have to print a parallel currency; Russia will certainly finance a Greece within the EU to block foreign policy crap against Russia. And the eurozone if not the EU will start to fall apart.

    And if the reports of attempted political destabilisation of the government by the Troika can be proven, Greece has a case to take to the European Courts — for breach of the EC Treaties (democratic provisions) and of Council of Europe treaties.

    Europe is fucked up. You cannot negotiate with lunatics.

  25. Indeed. I have always seen this as a war of power and ideology, with Germany on the wrong side as usual.

  26. They do have “other interests”. Actually those other interests have become their maim interests.

    And this main interest is to not getting officially robbed by a country through blackmail.

    Would you lend a guy money and if he comes back and says: “I cant pay you back, but that is not my fault and when you say I have to pay, you will get nothing at all!”, would you just let it slide?

  27. I just don’t get it, we already are in bankruptcy, what ever we want to buy in Europe must be paid in advance before deliver.
    the parliament inquiry as proven without a shadow of a doubt that this debt was caused by the maneuver of the IMF (through false accounting inflating the debt and minimizing the revenues in order to lower the notation of Greece and oblige the country to call IMF):
    A confidential note of IMF was making prevision that if Greece applied the exigence of the IMF the deficit was going to increase and Greece will not be able to repay.
    All this to reimburse the financial speculation operated by French German and dutch banks(ters) and to steal oil fields gold land Island .
    Tsipras as gone much too far, if the goal is to say “it could have been worst” sorry it will not work, confiscation of the banks printing of euros and réquisition of the Greek Central bank by the army.

    confiscation of all the property belonging to the banksters and their servants, denunciation of all the measure against Russia with opening of military bases.

    creation of a // national money.
    To say that it”s going to be easy and tomorrow everything will be fine is grotesque, it’s going to be painful but to go to the better and not to the worst.

  28. I don’t think there is any war on Greece or another country. I do think the quality of Greek political class is very low. The difficult debt situation was caused by the same political class which like to play now “games” and drama (5 months!!!) instead to have the courage to reform the Greek mentality and society.

  29. This Greek mantra is just misleading:
    Let me remind you that the greek GDP fall 25% the last 5 years so OBVIOUSLY the cost not just of the pension system but for every public sector services increased as a percent of gdp

    1. During auserity deficit decrease much faster than GDP.
    2. Your GDP did not dectease just due to austerity but mainly becasue it was bubble financed by loans.
    3. Such a huge gap in pension system should be the first to decrease. If it increased (I do not have figures) it means there was not enough austerity. What %of GDP it was in 2010?

  30. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    “Robbing by a country” and “blackmail” is fathasuckin Nazi-propaganda of your Goebbels-media

  31. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    It’s smarter to print a trillion Euro in Athens, only 5 Euro is possible to print but who cares as there’s enough money to buy necessary stuff in Turkey as all others will close the border by EU-order.

  32. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    “Greek mentality”? Ah, then German mentality is “Dönermorde” and a big dose of it in Kundus cheered by drunken yaahoo Ballermann soldiers with self printed t-shirts against “gas-thieves”

  33. Giaourti Giaourtaki

    I have a good idea: “Artists boycott Germany”

  34. Good idea, because right now they certainly arent.
    Berlin that ugly nazi city without sea, has the fastest growing jewish community outside of israel, many of them young artists.

  35. To both of you,Ill borrow someone elses words:
    “Generalising is the first step toward racism. Every sentence beginning with “The Germans believe this” or “The Greeks do that” is an initial slide on a slippery slope leading, eventually, to bigotry. As I have argued before there is no such thing as the Germans, or the Brits, or the Greeks for that matter. Our various nations sport as much variety within them as the divergence that we observe between them….”

  36. Actually, the problem is with the quality of the German political class. We can also observe this historically, as a clear German problem.

    The Greeks, on the other hand, have a technocratic government with a massive number of UK-educated PhDs (many in economics) and completely outclass the uneducated bigots and morons of the rest of the Eurogroup. Not one of the German politicians has the slightest idea how economies work, but they all feel very confident to talk their neoliberal crap and lecture people who are actually expert and world class.