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49% of Germans Want Greeks Out Of the Euro Zone

49% of the Germans believe that Greece has to abandon the Euro zone. This is the result of a survey conducted by TNS Enmid for the German weekly FOCUS.

According to the preliminary publication of the survey, 43% of the respondents believe that Greece has to remain in the eurozone, while 8% does not answer the question.

In a similar survey conducted in June, 47% of the respondents favored Greece in the EZ and 46% favoring return to Drachma.

The survey was conducted between July 4-5, 2012 among 1,000 people.

I would also propose a survey with the question: How can media influence public opinion.

Last May, Focus-rival DER SPIEGEL wrote in an article entitled : Why Greece Needs to Leave the Euro Zone

 “In Greece’s Best Interest

It’s time to rethink the treatment. The Greeks were never ready for the monetary union, and they still aren’t ready today. The attempt to retroactively bring the country up to speed through reforms has failed.

No one can force the Greeks to give up the euro. And yet it is now clear that withdrawal would also be in the country’s best interest.

It isn’t a matter of abandoning the Greeks. Greece is and remains an important part of Europe. A Greek withdrawal from the euro will have serious social, political and economic consequences — mostly for the Greeks, but also for the rest of Europe. The continent’s solidarity is not tied to the euro, which is why other European countries will still have to support Greece with massive amounts of money.

But only a Greek withdrawal from the euro zone will give the country a chance to get back on its feet in the long term. The Greeks would have their own currency once again, which they could then devalue, making imports more expensive and exports cheaper. As a result, say American economist Kenneth Rogoff and others, the Greek economy could become competitive again.

At the same time, a Greek exit from the euro would send a strong message to other financially ailing countries, namely that Europe cannot be blackmailed. Populist politician Tsipras is merely expressing views that are already widespread within large segments of the Athens establishment, namely that the Europeans will ultimately give in and pay up, because they fear a Greek bankruptcy as much as people in the Middle Ages feared the Black Death.”

And if we’re not dead we live happily to read German press articles. With the Euro or the Drachma. We read them free of charge on internet anyway.

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42 comments

  1. Can someone tell us who actually paid the cost of parity 1 = 1 of the West German DM with that one of East Germany???

    I’m waiting for an answer…

  2. keeptalkinggreece

    hm… I think the European taxpayers including Greeks, Portuguese, Irish, Spanish etc. We definitely need an article about Who paid for the German Reunification to shut some mouths 🙂

  3. Well, I am not sure what the answer is. Initally, it was a problem for the West German economy, but I suspect that the burden was reconfigured to be borne to some extent by EU funding, and possibly by implicit transfers from European economic activity.

    I do know definitively, that any foreigners with East German banks accounts (one British friend had to have one, to put money from concert tours in East Germany) lost all their savings because the West Germans refused to pay up. So there is some recentish history of bad behaviour of Germans with money and non-German people.

    In my view, all these problems with modern Germany started with reunification. We should never have allowed them to do it. Germany has become an overlarge and powerful country with an abusive mentality. Just as it was at the start of the twentieth century.

  4. That happened 13 years before we had the €

  5. keeptalkinggreece

    and? ‘loans’ must be paid back one day

  6. Like the WWII reparations that have been paid, agreed to have been paid by the Greeks, and now suddenly not being paid? This this thing with Greeks and Germany owing money is much like the Barak Obama not being born in the USA conspiracy. How relevant is it to Greece conquering its huge deficit problem anyway? Even if Germany granted Greece 100 billion Euros today would that make a difference? Greece would still be operating under a deficit that would quickly balloon back over that 100 billion Euro.

  7. My friend: your grasp of Greek history seems to be non-existent. Do you have any living parents or grandparents to ask, because I suggest that you do so. No money was “loaned” to the Germans by Greece: they invaded the country, with the assistance of Italians and Bulgarians, and STOLE the gold deposits of Greece. Do you know this verb “to steal”? It is rather different from “to lend”.

    AS far as the supposed return of this money (and war reparations) is concerned, I and others are atill waiting to see the legal documents. Where are they? Who signed them? What do they say? How much money and where did it go? This has NOTHING in common with the malakia about Obama’s birhplace, so cut the crap. This is about a country refusing to admit its past, and has no documentation to prove anything at all.

    I do not believe that you are a Greek. If I, as a Brit, have more empathy with Greece than you do, you are either a liar or someone who should not have Greek citizenship.

  8. Really, well since we are questioning our origins I would like proof that you are not German yourself. It seems to me that you would rather continue with this charade that you are an Hellenophile to stir up anti German sentiment and thereby influence voters to vote anti MoU parties and thereby get Greece kicked out of the Euro!!! HA I am onto you!!!!!

  9. I get so tired hearing from expats that Greeks are lazy. They are not lazy!! They fought the Turks for 400 years, so they are resting for a few years and well deserved indeed.

  10. Where did you get that weird idea? The DM was the German currency, not an EU one, and only German taxpayers had to pay for the reunification. You other folks contributed exactly zero, rien, nada, tipota. Thanks for nothing.

  11. Boohoohoo. Foreigners who made profits by dealing with the East German communist party dictatorship lost some money? That’s a heartbreaking story. So sad.
    😀

  12. What loans?

  13. Let’s get back to the topic: Do you folks disagree with the Focus story? Do you still believe the Troika rescue efforts are getting Greece on a recovery course? There’s no indicators at all that this is working, that that nation will manage to achieve sustaianable growth in the medium run this way. So, very obviously, it’s high time for a Plan B, preferably for one that evidently has a chance to succeed. In the past, Greece got out of such trouble by devaluing its currency. Of course, high inflation comes with its own hardships, but history shows us that Greeks get along with that much better than with austerity. So, what exactly is your problem with returning to the Drachme? How long do you want to wait for a miracle, like Euros growing on olive trees, really?

  14. keeptalkinggreece

    there was EU funding and member-states contributions also before the EZ.

  15. You are pathetic.

  16. Ah yes, the well-tried German trick of claiming to have had no benefit from EU funds…

  17. No, not profits. Low wages from carrying out an honest profession (classical musicians and other artists). The problem with people like you is that you care only about money, and attribute the same dirty mentality to others. I would guess that you work for a bank or some financial services company.

  18. giaoýrti giaoyrtáki

    Who cares about what “1000 people” or the Focus thinks?
    In Germany nobody!
    The problem with returning to Drachma is simply that that is the aim of the whole plot: Get’em out and then get the investors money in (esp. the Greek from Cyprus, Singapore and Switzerland) to create a miracle with chinazation and kill the poor.

  19. Germany was always a net contributor. But maybe xenos has got evidence for his assumption.

  20. The question is not even that. It is, “who paid for East Germany to become part of the EU?” Since there does not appear to be any researcg on this question — presumably since it is politically embarrassing for Germany — then it is open to discussion. It seems fairly clear that West Germany was not the sole contributor to the East German economy, since the Structural Funds were directed there. It is not relevant whether West Germany was a net contributor or not — even though those calculations are open to challenge, anyway.

  21. keeptalkinggreece

    I wonder how we can find info in this issue and post an article.

  22. Well, maybe it’s only me, but I don’t see much of a problem if investors’ money would get in (not that I think that’s likely right now). How else do you want to create new jobs?

  23. I’m certain “Xenos” has a conspiracy theory ready that shows that Germany is secretly ripping all others off. He’s very creative in inventing such stuff.
    😀

  24. Wrong.
    😛

  25. What’s not relevant is what you think about that. The reunificated Germany paid more into the EU’s coffins than it got back. Period.

  26. Do not forget… before the EURO we have the ECU (The European Currency Unit).
    The ECU itself replaced the European Unit of Account, also at parity, on 13 March 1979. The European Exchange Rate Mechanism attempted to minimize fluctuations between member state currencies and the ECU.
    On 1 January 1999, the euro (with the code EUR and symbol €) replaced the ECU, at the value €1 = 1 ECU.

    This is for the existence of the european currency during Germany’s reunification

  27. keeptalkinggreece

    maybe the reunified Germany as a whole, but East Germany profited without any cost. Except public and private properties sold to sharks for a dime.

  28. keeptalkinggreece

    Good to be reminded of things we have forgotten…

  29. You really don’t need any conspiracy theories to see that Germany is indeed ripping Europe off, and here is one small (?) example.
    http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/genese-der-irland-krise-endspiel-in-europas-casino-a-730449-4.html
    In this article it is brought to the attention of the German public that in October 2010 the Irish banks had been cut off from “the markets” and received short term emergency loans amounting to 20 billion euor from the Irish National bank and 130 billion from the ECB, of course with Germany as the paymaster behind it.
    In the graph showing what Irish bank received, is a very strange entry. The first bank mentioned, DEPFA, received 35 billion, which is part of what the Irish people are now paying back.
    Strangely enough, DEPFA was a GERMAN bank, bought by HYPO REAL ESTATE in 2007, which through a series of bailouts ended up 100% owned by the German government. DEPFA is responsible for about 2/3 of the total losses clocked up by Hypo Real Estate, amounting to the staggering amount of well over 200 billion Euro.
    Please note that this information is supplied by Barclays Capital, not really known for making “little” mistakes worth 35 billion.
    So, how come the Irish people are paying 35 billion of debt belonging to a German bank? And what else are other people paying for that they are not aware off?
    Want another, Greek related example? As part of the last bailout, it was made clear to the Greek government that “existing contracts must be honoured”. Which contracts was Schauble on about? More weapons, German made of course. Billions worth there-off. It’s a bit rich to insist that a country must cut it’s peoples living standards the way Greece has been forced to cuts the Greek peoples living standard, while at the same time insisting that billions worht of military hardware is purchased so that there is no economic disadvantage to Germany. It’s even richer to then turn around a state that we are not being ripped off…

  30. Many East Germans profitted, and a lot of Western German crooks as well. But Germany paid the bill, not the EU, so what’s the point? The “Treuhand” wasn’t an European agency, but a German one, funded by German money.

  31. Irrelevant. Germany paid more than it received. So, no foreign “funding”, just some of our own money coming back. Period.

  32. keeptalkinggreece

    I remember paying Soli-Tax for your reunification. I want it back now. In fact, I need it urgently!

  33. keeptalkinggreece

    we’re talking about EU Structural Funds for East Germany here contributed by EU taxpayers 🙂

  34. Did you manage to pass your school exams in arithmetic and logic? If east Germany was paid for by the rest of Europe, then we should have had some say about reunification. We did not. So, basically, West Germany made everyone else pay for its own policy of expanding territory and population, to become the largest country in Europe.

    Does this sound familiar, somehow? Oh yes, your dear friend Adolf had the same idea.

  35. Also I read today (sorry, dont have the reference to hand) that the German banking regulator last year prevented a subsidiary bank in Germany from sending funds to its parent bank in Italy. This is acceptable under banking laws (which are national) but is contrary to the EU Treaties which demand the free movement of capital.

    So, we have another example of how the Germans are making sure that they rip off Europe. No respect for European law, only interested in themselves.

  36. If you wanted to avoid paying the solidarity tax, you should have worked in another country than Germany, ktg. I’m surprised that you seem to think you can cherrypick which taxes you wannna pay and which you want to refuse. That’s a strange attitude towards the laws. How very Greek of you!
    😛

  37. keeptalkinggreece

    you won’t believe it, but it was in Germany where I was taught such things: there were appeals by Germans to courts against the Soli-Tax, or other for the spending of taxes for other purposes. Remember? Furthermore, I was tought that taxes are reciprocal. So what did I personally – as taxpayer – gain from Germany reunification than an East German Chancellor and President and an austerity neoliberal policy imposed by FDP – talking about Germany in the 90’s here – where wages were cut and labour rights were decreased?

  38. You’re confusing quite a lot of things in your comment, Epi. Firstly, Germany isn’t the paymaster of the ECB. If you really believe that, you’re seriously mistaken about how a central bank works nowadays.

    Secondly, DEPFA is an Irish bank (since 2001), subject to Irish laws, under supervision of Irish regulators. Exactly that was part of the problem. German regulators, who didn’t have a legal way to look into the books of an Irish bank, tried to alert their colleagues in Dublin about hints of risky investments by that institute in the mid 2000s. The Irish, acting under “laissez faire” guidelines from their government, ignored the warning and did nothing to check the risk management of that major player in the Irish financial sector. Consequently, DEPFA got into huge trouble when the credit bubble burst, dragging their German “mother” HRE down, too. The German government nationalized the bank and spent about 100 billion Euros to bail it out. If Germany hadn’t done so, and instead have let HRE or possibly only DEPFA go bankrupt, the damage to the Irish economy would have been tremendous.

    Thirdly, the article you cite doesn’t say anything about DEPFA receiving money from the Irish government, it says the bank got 35 billions in CREDITS (not gifts) from the ECB. You sure you actually understand German language, or do you use Google translate?

  39. Ktg, do you remember that nothing came out of the appeals? The constitutional court decided that that tax is legal. Sorry, but you won’t get anything back.
    Btw, I find it a bit irritating that at the same time you demand huge solidarity payments for Greece from Germany (even though EU law (LT article 125) explicitly excludes any obligatory solidarity) while at the same time you want to avoid a legal obligation for solidarity with the Eastern Germans. That’s very Greek, too, to see solidarity as a one way street that always should be in your favor!
    😛

  40. keeptalkinggreece

    you miss the point here. “As EU taxpayers contributed solidarity with the East Germans, today’s Germany should not be so arrogant and do as if it’s the only payer. Be humble and thankful and pay back those who helped you when in need.” – so simple.

  41. DEFTA was purchased by Hypo in 2007, and became a fully owned German bank. The figures given in the article date from 2010, when the bank was indeed FULLY GERMAN OWNED.
    Credits or loans, don’t make any difference, the Irish are paying for a German bank, as is the rest of Europe. No matter how nicely you try to dress it up and hide reality, Germany is kept afloat on the back of the increasing poverty of the rest of Europe, because the wealth of the rest of Europe is being diverted to Germany by any means at this stage, with total disregard of the cost, humanitarian or economic, to those that are being robbed.
    But as I said elsewhere, be warned. Reality has the habit of coming back to bite you when least expected and where it hurts most.
    And as for reading right, what I and the article says is that the GERMAN bank Defta, together with IRISH banks, in 2010, was part recipient of emergency short term loans of a combined 20 billion from the Irish Central bank and 130 billion from the ECB. I never said it got money from the Irish government. But the Irish people are paying for 35 billion borrowed by a GERMAN bank. Money it should have gotten from Germany, paid for by Germany if it needed it.

  42. My German friend: when the actual reality (as opposed to your weird idea of it) hits you, you will get a nasty shock. Most of what you have been writing here and elsewhere is very superficial and fails to identify the underlying processes and structures within Europe. If you do not have a vested interest in the banking sector, then you are just barking up the wrong tree.